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Copying Monkhouse

Mahendran Mohan
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 02, 2008
Posts: 11
Folks who have completed SCJD,
I am just little curious whether any mark would be deducted for using code/design from Monkhouse. Our project is supposed to be our original material. The monkhouse book offers most of the designs, explaination for the design,and implementation which with just a little tweaking can be directly used in the project. Using book contect directly - would it do any harm? Has anyone done the same before? Really appreciate any insights, experience.

thanks in advance, Mahendran


Cheers, Mahendran<br />SCJP, SCWCD, SCJD-B&S in progress.
Alex Belisle Turcot
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 26, 2005
Posts: 516
Originally posted by MahendranMohan Gopal:
Folks who have completed SCJD,
I am just little curious whether any mark would be deducted for using code/design from Monkhouse. Our project is supposed to be our original material. The monkhouse book offers most of the designs, explaination for the design,and implementation which with just a little tweaking can be directly used in the project. Using book contect directly - would it do any harm? Has anyone done the same before? Really appreciate any insights, experience.

thanks in advance, Mahendran


I would be very surprised that you could just copy & paste source code from his book.. Of course, if you implement a Singleton, it will look very similar as the Singleton he used.. Beside patterns, the domain should be very different, thus the classes, methods and variables should be very different..

I'm curious, did you start working on SCJD (how much?) or do you just assume that the code from the book will be directly usable ?

Don't get me wrong, the book is great to learn and is a huge head start on how to do things, but directly using its code would mean (in my opinion) that the design & code quality of your system is not as good as it should/could be.

Please don't hesitate to reply so we can discuss this more.

Regards,
Alex
[ September 29, 2008: Message edited by: Alex Belisle Turcot ]
Alex Belisle Turcot
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 26, 2005
Posts: 516
As for the question if marks would be deducted, I would think that if the code is found to be a "copy" of Monk's book, it should be automatic failure, though it is probably hard to prove it.

Basically, as far as I know, in real life you must quote when you use stuff from someone else and for this specific assignment one of the requirement is to write all the code yourself.

If you find a great idea from the book, there should be no problem adapting to your situation. After all, this ain't rocket science either!

Regards,
Alex
Jethro Borsje
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 22, 2008
Posts: 100
I think you should be really careful with copying code, because if Sun finds out I imagine you would fail the assignment automatically. Besides that I think the whole point of the SCJD is to learn and prove that you are capable of developing a client / server application. Just copying parts of other people does not sound very ethical to me.


SCJP, SCJD
Andrew Monkhouse
author and jackaroo
Marshal Commander

Joined: Mar 28, 2003
Posts: 11503
    
  95

Originally posted by Alex Belisle Turcot:
[QB]I would be very surprised that you could just copy & paste source code from his book.. Of course, if you implement a Singleton, it will look very similar as the Singleton he used.. Beside patterns, the domain should be very different, thus the classes, methods and variables should be very different..


That is exactly what Terry and I were aiming for.

While there are concepts that can be followed in our book, you will need to understand the concepts in order to adapt them to your assignment.

Regards, Andrew


The Sun Certified Java Developer Exam with J2SE 5: paper version from Amazon, PDF from Apress, Online reference: Books 24x7 Personal blog
Grary Stimon
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 30, 2008
Posts: 42
Per Andrew's most recent comment, I have indeed learned a great deal using his book and my understanding is much better off for it.

On the downside, my dilemma has been that after studying the book and the accompanying code, it feels perverse to endeavor to write altogether different stuff just so as not to copy. In several places, but particularly with respect to GUI-related code, I have gone off on my own, only to return to the book's approach. I really do feel this to be a dilemma: read the book and your code may be compromised per Sun's requirements, don't use the book and lose a valuable learning aid.

Will anybody raise their hand if they were failed for coding in violation of Sun's integrity standard or does anyone know of anyone who has been?

Thanks,

Grary
Roel De Nijs
Bartender

Joined: Jul 19, 2004
Posts: 5534
    
  13

Hi all,

This is indeed a tricky thing, because I also had these doubts while developing my assignment. Also when I needed a class name (like ApplicationRunner) I was doubting if I could use the same name (because it was already in Andrew's book and they might think I just copied it from the book). But on the other hand: that class name is perfect, it covers for 100% the purpose of that class (so I used the same name).

If i evaluate my assignment versus the code used in Andrew's book, I can make following conclusions:
  • the Data class, locking, server and RMI part are completely my own creation (maybe used a variable name or a javadoc comment, because I couldn't explain it better than Andrew)
  • in the GUI I certainly did use some concepts Andrew has in his book too (like the class for saving the configuration settings, the reusable panel to enter configuration settings, the gui controller). And I don't think it's a good idea to just copy the code, because first of all it is not your own work and secondly the code has also its issues (not complete, unnecessary code,...).


  • Kind regards,
    Roel


    SCJA, SCJP (1.4 | 5.0 | 6.0), SCJD
    http://www.javaroe.be/
    Andrew Monkhouse
    author and jackaroo
    Marshal Commander

    Joined: Mar 28, 2003
    Posts: 11503
        
      95

    Grary Stimon wrote:Will anybody raise their hand if they were failed for coding in violation of Sun's integrity standard or does anyone know of anyone who has been?

    While not been definitive, I would have thought that if anyone had failed in that regard, they would have contacted me through either Apress or here to complain - so far I've not heard of a single issue in this regard.
    Grary Stimon
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Sep 30, 2008
    Posts: 42
    Thanks Andrew, Roel for your comments. My experience is like yours, Roel. I feel that much of my code other is original, but not the GUI stuff. I might propose a special note inserted in future editions of the book warning readers of the need for originality, especially as regards GUI material.

    Grary
    Anne Crace
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Aug 29, 2005
    Posts: 223
    My experience on this has been much the same as everyone else. Andrew's code is a great starting point, especially if you are an inexperienced developer (as I very much was when I first got the assignment). Believe me, you will end up changing the code in order to meet your requirements. I also wondered about class names, etc. and I do have a CleanExit class. I just couldn't think of anything better to call it, as Roel previously posted. I usually changed names slightly, but trust me, the code will be different. Nothing to worry about.


    SCJP, SCJD
    K. Tsang
    Bartender

    Joined: Sep 13, 2007
    Posts: 2584
        
        9

    Hi all, although I didn't read the Monkhouse during my assignment, the main point of the assignment and ultimately the essay is defend your design and implementation. If you do copy Monkhouse code or design or approach or whatever, you better know why you did it and you can explain it in your choices.txt file. Else you would be in trouble.

    Of course go with instinct when designing your assignment. You may feel approach A looks good today but as you go on, that approach A may cause trouble.


    K. Tsang JavaRanch SCJP5 SCJD/OCM-JD OCPJP7 OCPWCD5 OCPBCD5
    Andrew Monkhouse
    author and jackaroo
    Marshal Commander

    Joined: Mar 28, 2003
    Posts: 11503
        
      95

    Grary Stimon wrote:I might propose a special note inserted in future editions of the book warning readers of the need for originality, especially as regards GUI material.

    Sounds like a good idea. We will also have to think about what else we can do to differentiate the book from the real assignment so that the topics still get covered while making it easier for readers to come up with their own ideas (this is the hardest thing for us to do).
    Matheus Mendes
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: May 15, 2007
    Posts: 66
    I used almost the same GUI, I made some adaptations, I used a lot of concepts and the GUI becomes practically the same. Will I be disqualified or lost points for using that ? I followed the book to develop my assigment, mainly the RMI part was based on the book material. Of course I didn't copy & paste but my project is much similar to the monkhouse's project. I tried to use a thin client, that is not used on the book, the Deeny dvd has a timeout locking, It was not on my assigment so I didn't use it. But the write/read from the RecordFileAcess is practically the same. Of course I change a lot of things, but the main idea is the same.

    My Essay exam is tomorrow and I'm so anxious to do it and know my result. I'll post it soon as possible.

    Thank you all and best regards.


    The Death of one is a tragedy, but the Death of a million is just a statistic. Joseph Stalin

    SCJP 6.0, SCJD
    Roberto Perillo
    Bartender

    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 2267
        
        3

    Howdy, Matheus!

    Champion, good luck tomorrow. If you followed my advice (about studying your project), you'll do fine. Remember that the goal of this exam is to prove that you are the one who coded everything. One good tip is to give implementation details in your answers. No need to worry, soon you'll also be a SCJD!
    And by the way, Professor Eduardo Guerra and I are writing the article that will be in the cover of the next MundoJava magazine, so stay tuned!


    Cheers, Bob "John Lennon" Perillo
    SCJP, SCWCD, SCJD, SCBCD - Daileon: A Tool for Enabling Domain Annotations
    Matheus Mendes
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: May 15, 2007
    Posts: 66
    Thanks perillo !

    Today is the day, Soon I'll be seated and writing a lot of things about my project, I am very confident about that.

    Soon as possible I'll post the results here.

    []s
    Gert-Jan den Besten
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: May 02, 2008
    Posts: 56

    Anne Crace wrote:My experience on this has been much the same as everyone else. Andrew's code is a great starting point, especially if you are an inexperienced developer (as I very much was when I first got the assignment). Believe me, you will end up changing the code in order to meet your requirements. I also wondered about class names, etc. and I do have a CleanExit class. I just couldn't think of anything better to call it, as Roel previously posted. I usually changed names slightly, but trust me, the code will be different. Nothing to worry about.

    That's my experience as well


    SCJP 5; SCJD; SCWCD 5.
    Kenny Johnson
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jan 01, 2007
    Posts: 37
    TO make a quick example , lets use the locking objective of the exam. The exam requires you to implement the locking methods of some class they provide. If you just read the locking chapter and then copy the code , sun won't care? I'd imagine there isn't much different in the monkhouse locking code as he uses a file for the DB just like sun does.
    Andrew Monkhouse
    author and jackaroo
    Marshal Commander

    Joined: Mar 28, 2003
    Posts: 11503
        
      95

    If you use the locking code from my book you will fail, since we deliberately broke at least one of the must rules from the real assignment just to stop direct copying. And there is a bug in it as well

    If you understand the code in the book, you will be easily able to adapt it to your assignment.
    Kenny Johnson
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jan 01, 2007
    Posts: 37
    Does the book tell what the bug is? If not, why would you place a bug in the code on purpose and not tell people?
    Andrew Monkhouse
    author and jackaroo
    Marshal Commander

    Joined: Mar 28, 2003
    Posts: 11503
        
      95

    We did not deliberately put bugs into the book, however many of our readers have been sharp enough to notice where we have made mistakes, and we have added them to the errata.
    Kenny Johnson
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jan 01, 2007
    Posts: 37
    where can the errata be viewed? I have the Java 5 version of the book but don't see it.
    Roel De Nijs
    Bartender

    Joined: Jul 19, 2004
    Posts: 5534
        
      13

    Hi Kenny,

    On the website of Apress for example (where you can also download the source). Just click the link in Andrew's signature and you'll find it at the left of the page or just click here.

    Kind regards,
    Roel
     
    I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
     
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