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JSF maturity

Vinnie Jenks
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Joined: Apr 26, 2004
Posts: 207
Would it be safe to say that JSF is really not mature enough to invest time & effort in a large application? From what I've read, JSP and JSF don't exactly play nice together and JSF is bound to change considerably in the near future.

How does it stack up w/ something like WebWork, Struts, Spring MVC, etc.? I know just the surface concepts of these technologies but the hype I'm hearing about JSF makes it sound a little more promising (especially since it is a spec now.)

I don't consider MVC with JSP/Servlets/JSTL all that complicated but it would be nice to have an event model. So far, all of these frameworks just look complicated to me in that I have to write much more code to achieve the same things I'm accomplishing without them.

I'm rather new, so I could be wrong...please fill me in!

Thanks!

-v
Adeel Ansari
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Joined: Aug 15, 2004
Posts: 2874
Originally posted by Vinnie Jenks:
Would it be safe to say that JSF is really not mature enough to invest time & effort in a large application? From what I've read, JSP and JSF don't exactly play nice together and JSF is bound to change considerably in the near future.


Yeah you can say that JSF is an immature framework relatively. But we are doing great with it. Its worthy to learn JSF and you will definitely get results after putting your time and efforts to use JSF in your application, no matter its large or small.


I'm hearing about JSF makes it sound a little more promising (especially since it is a spec now.)


Cent percent agreement.


I don't consider MVC with JSP/Servlets/JSTL all that complicated but it would be nice to have an event model. So far, all of these frameworks just look complicated to me in that I have to write much more code to achieve the same things I'm accomplishing without them.


As far as struts is concern, you can say it complicated. But tapestry, JSF is relatively simple and having a small learning curve. I used to make my own mini framework before JSF. Now JSF is going good with me.

JSF and tapestry are more realistic to a OO programmer and a component developer. As both are component based framework. For those who knows Swing, JSF is just easy as anything.

Cheers.
Kevin P Smith
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Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 362
I would just like to follow on from this post by asking a simple question really.

I have always used old fashioned JSP/Servlet for my presentation layer in any WebApp, simply using the JSP for display perposes POSTing data to a Servlet which in turn would call various other classes/methods to do 'stuff'.

Recently I started looking at a new project for myself and decided it would be a good time to get up-to-date and use one of the many Frankworks that are around. After spending a good bit of time looking at Tapistry, Struts and the like, I found JSF to be the most promising.
My main attraction was the fact that it's new, and therefore I thought my WebApp could evolve as JSF evolves. The only problem is, I started actual dedvelopment about a week ro so ago, and I finding the concepts to JSF a little harder to grasp than expected.

So I guess really my basic question is...

Is it really worth me learning JSF or would I be better suited to just sticking to what I know?
By that I mean, is the learning curve really worth it, for the end product or is this just another example of a Framework for Frameworks sake and I'll get no real benefit from it as oppose to JSP/Servlets?

Bit of an open question, but just wonder what people thought. Is JSF really worth learning if I'm more than comfortable in classic JSP/Servlets development?

Cheers
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
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Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61764
    
  67

Keith Seller wrote:Bit of an open question, but just wonder what people thought. Is JSF really worth learning if I'm more than comfortable in classic JSP/Servlets development?

For me? No. I think JSF is an over-complicated abomination. Your milage may vary, and you will certainly get opposing opinions.

P.S. That said, I always advocate learning enough of something to form an informed opinion.

P.P.S. In the future, it's best to post your own new topic rather than resurrecting older posts.


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Kevin P Smith
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Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 362
Ah I mis-read the date, I thought it was 10th December 2008! :roll:

I think I might try a simple version of my app in JSF, if it doesn't feel like my thing I'll revert to my JSP/Servlet method.

Just feels a bit "so last year" using JSP/Servlet when the new generation of Java developer around me seem to be talking about JSF, Tapestry, Struts, Ruby, Spring.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
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Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61764
    
  67

I tried them all (except switching to Ruby) and they just feel like they get in the way more than they help to me. Again, learn enough of each to make your own determination (and it never hurts to have more buzz-words on your resume), but you asked for opinions, and that's mine.

P.S. JSP/Servlets has come a long way since 2002.
Ulf Dittmer
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Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 42919
    
  68
Keith,
JSF may not be the right framework for you, but that doesn't mean that some framework couldn't be of help.

If you're comfortable with the servlet style of development, then component-oriented approaches like JSF and Wicket may feel rather different and a bit alien.

Something like Stripes or Struts 2 (not Struts 1, which is dead) may be more up your alley. But either way, it's good to get an overview of what frameworks can and can not do for you.
Kevin P Smith
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Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 362
Bear Bibeault wrote:I tried them all (except switching to Ruby) and they just feel like they get in the way more than they help to me. Again, learn enough of each to make your own determination (and it never hurts to have more buzz-words on your resume), but you asked for opinions, and that's mine.

P.S. JSP/Servlets has come a long way since 2002.


This is true.
I found similar issues with Hibernate (I tried a little Spring/Hibernate developing a while back) I felt it was just a ton of XML and Classes just to get the most basic results, EJB3.0 won over hands down for me!

Sometimes I think there are too many people trying to create the new 'in' Framework rather than improving what's already around. A downside of Java I guess.

I wasn't keen on Struts, but JSF looks a little more suited for me. I'll give it a whirl and if not I'll stick to JSP/Servlets.

Cheers for the input.
 
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