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To the authors: JSF & the other frameworks

 
Roel De Nijs
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there are so many web application frameworks that it becomes hard to know them all good.

at my company we use struts and i know that JSF is better (from the posts here on the forum and that you have to use it for new projects and keep to struts for the already struts one)

but what with spring, shale, tapestry, webwork, ... ?

and what's the learning effort to go from struts to JSF ?

and how easy it is to use/implement that other "hype" of the moment (AJAX) with Struts, JSF,...
 
Chris Schalk
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Roel,

"...but what with spring, shale, tapestry, webwork, ... ?"

Since JSF is Java, you can work with any other Java based framework - Spring, Hibernate. Shale also works well with JSF. Tapestry and Webwork are more Web ui frameworks more akin to JSF, so it is best to evaluate JSF with these and see which one suits you best.

"and what's the learning effort to go from struts to JSF ?"

I originally was very comfortable with Struts and found moving into JSF a pleasant experience. I would say anyone who knows Struts can easily learn JSF.


"and how easy it is to use/implement that other "hype" of the moment (AJAX) with Struts, JSF,..."

This is obviously a hot area and we have provided some intro coverage of how to build custom JSF components that use AJAX. However the world of AJAX is continuing to evolve and there are now AJAX JavaScript toolkits such as DOJO that simplify AJAX but purely from a JavaScript perspective.. There is even an OpenAJAX initiative that is looking to provide interoperability between the various JavaScript based AJAX toolkits.. From a JSF perspective, this is all good because JSF components can render any markup, be it homegrown basic JavaScript or sophisticated JavaScript code coming from a 3rd party. In either case JSF is agnostic and will support this - actually it will make it easier to use by hiding the complexities to the end users. JMaki is a good example of this approach..

-Chris
 
Adeel Ansari
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Shale is a modern web application framework, fundamentally based on JavaServer Faces, and focused on improving ease of use for developers adopting JSF as a foundational technology in their own development environments. - From Shale Apache
 
Roel De Nijs
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one other more specific question: i saw that JSF has also input validation as one of its features.

Is it comparable to the Validation Framework you can use with Struts? Or could you maybe use that same framework also in JSF ?

Is there some example-app available that can be run in a Tomcat 5.0 without much configuration and show some basic (and fancy) features of JSF?
[ September 13, 2006: Message edited by: Roel De Nijs ]
 
Fintan Conway
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Originally posted by Roel De Nijs:
Is there some example-app available that can be run in a Tomcat 5.0 without much configuration and show some basic (and fancy) features of JSF?


Hi Roel,

Take a look at My Faces examples for examples of JSF components (including validation) that come with My Faces. You can also view the source that produced the examples.

Regards,

Fintan
 
Greg Charles
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Is JSF development usually a "by hand" effort or are tools necessary? My one experience with JSF was a tutorial done on Rational Application Developer. I was impressed with what it could do and how easy it was ... but it didn't quite work, and I was left with no idea how to fix it. I tried again from scratch and it worked better, but not perfectly. I even loaded the solution that came with the tutorial and found that it too had minor flaws that, again, I had no idea how to isolate and fix.

My point: is JSF so exceedingly complex that details have to be hidden from the developers like in Microsoft style development? I'm leery of technologies that allow the rapid development of pretty applications by people who don't understand what they're doing.
 
Chris Schalk
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Greg,

It can be both.. You can use a tool or do it entirely by hand if you want..
This point was brought I think several times yesterday.
-Chris
 
Adeel Ansari
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Originally posted by Roel De Nijs:
Is it comparable to the Validation Framework you can use with Struts? Or could you maybe use that same framework also in JSF ?


The Struts validation framework is now brought into jakarata commons. You can use that with JSF or any other framework. I have used that with JSF and now using it with Spring.
 
Roel De Nijs
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OK, i'm convinced so let me win the book so i can get started
 
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