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JSF ever become web standard

Syed Saifuddin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 01, 2003
Posts: 130
Hi Sang,

I am working with java for five years and use many framework.I always appreciate the standard over framework.
For me JPA is better then Hibernate.
But when it come JSF, I am in doubt.

In JSF, I am very comfortable when I want to display table and when I want to make form submission.

but when I want to user Custom Components and when I want to use AJAX I find I have to do 5 time more work then Struts and simple JSP.

Please tell me that in your view do you think that JSF become the web standard for java or JSP and Struts is alway better.

Tell me some of the functional superiority of JSF over struts also. (Not like it is supported by SUN and JCP).

One more thing the change rate of depreciated API in JSF specification is more than any java specification. Why?

As I told you in the start that I always prefer to use standard JCP specification over open source framework.

So I am using JSF but I cannot make reasoning about JSF superiority.


If you can briefly explain your views about my issue regarding JSF. I feel satisfied about my work and my decision about choosing JSF.

Thank You
Syed Saifuddin


Thank You & Best Regards,

Syed Saifuddin,
Senior Software Engineer

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Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 16305
    
  21

Two very good reasons.

1. JSF is actually part of JEE. Struts never was

2. As Craig McClannahan (one of the authors of Struts) has pointed out, it takes something like 5 different source files to do the same amount of work in Struts as it does using 2 source files in JSF.


Customer surveys are for companies who didn't pay proper attention to begin with.
Mark Spritzler
ranger
Sheriff

Joined: Feb 05, 2001
Posts: 17260
    
    6

Originally posted by Tim Holloway:
Two very good reasons.

1. JSF is actually part of JEE. Struts never was

2. As Craig McClannahan (one of the authors of Struts) has pointed out, it takes something like 5 different source files to do the same amount of work in Struts as it does using 2 source files in JSF.


Along those lines, is I believe the guy who started and created Struts was the lead for JSF.

Mark


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Syed Saifuddin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 01, 2003
Posts: 130
Hi Tim Holloway

As I mention in my question that to say JSF is supported by sun is not the acceptable reason for me to select JSF. And your second point about a struts need 5 file and JSF need 2 to do the same work is replied by Mark Spritzler.

If you tell me the superiority of JSF over Struts in real working enviroment. It will help me more.
Eugene Abarquez
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 211
But when it come JSF, I am in doubt.

In JSF, I am very comfortable when I want to display table and when I want to make form submission.

but when I want to user Custom Components and when I want to use AJAX I find I have to do 5 time more work then Struts and simple JSP.


Then don't use it. Nobody forces you too. The abundance of frameworks available out there has always led to these kind of discussions. I don't know if there is such a thing as which framework is better than which. Each of us have their own opinions about things, and what is important to you may not be necessarily important to me. So I guess it's just a matter of preference more than anything else, or perhaps what you feel best suits the kind of problem you are solving.

Personally, I use JSF for most of my projects. Not because I think it is the most "superior" out of the bunch, but simply because it was the first framework I have been exposed to and have been using for quite some time, and I don't really have the time to devote myself to the learning curve that it takes to learn a new framework. It also works for most of the projects that I am doing so there is really no need to shift. And plus, I came from a Swing background so the JSF paradigm makes more sense to me.

And standards is not the end all and be all. It just simply means that Sun is endorsing it.
[ September 13, 2007: Message edited by: Eugene Abarquez ]

There's so much to learn in this industry, and not everybody has the necessary interest.
Abiodun Adisa
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 17, 2002
Posts: 495
I prefer JSF to Struts anytime. The reason being that you have so many reusable components out there to achieve task one would have needed many lines of code in Struts. Components such as Trees, HTML Editors,date Pickers, Color Pickers e.t.c. You mentioned AJAX, I guess you have'nt tried Ajax4JSF components. Another reason why i feel prefer JSF to struts is that the newest Frameworks (Such as Seam which solves most of the problems Programmers encounter while Developing Stateful web applications) are based on JSF. Well I don't really think one framework is better than the other. Struts has been used over the years to develop some of the best web applications. I like the competition out there between Struts and JSF
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61766
    
  67

Devil's advocate: you can also choose to use neither of JSF or Struts.


[Asking smart questions] [Bear's FrontMan] [About Bear] [Books by Bear]
Eugene Abarquez
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 211
And use FrontMan? That could be an option too. Hehehe.

Although I have to admit, this whole barrage of frameworks is making me a little dizzy. And don't even start with Ruby ...
[ September 13, 2007: Message edited by: Eugene Abarquez ]
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61766
    
  67

FrontMan works for me, but my point was not to push any one particular solution, but to point out that there are a lot of solutions of varying complexity. The choice is not merely between big Struts or big JSF.
[ September 13, 2007: Message edited by: Bear Bibeault ]
Eugene Abarquez
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 211
I agree. Or Spring.
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 16305
    
  21

The nice thing about both Struts AND JSF is that they don't have to totally own the app. You can mix and match Struts, JSF, and raw JSPs in the same webapp with impunity, using the best technology for the specific task at hand.

Aside from the relative architectural simplicity advantages that JSF offers application programmers, the future lies, I think is libraries of JSF components that provide AJAX and other such features via simple JSF tags. In other words, drop in the appropriate tags and the AJAX JavaScript is automatically generated, customized for the client's particular browser. You can see this already working in the calendar control of the Tomahawk JSF library, for example. The calendar isn't AJAX, but it's JavaScript, and the JavaScript is the ugly part of AJAX as far as I'm concerned.
Syed Saifuddin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 01, 2003
Posts: 130
Hi Everybody

Enjoy the Ajax in JSF by using phase listener. It work for me as an open servlet.

I never make all to all comparison but for ajax specific comparison. I ask for help. Any way now most of my issue is solved by IBM Article

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/web/library/wa-aj-jsf1.html
Zhaidarbek Ayazbayev
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 18, 2007
Posts: 6
Originally posted by Syed Saifuddin:
Hi Everybody

Enjoy the Ajax in JSF by using phase listener. It work for me as an open servlet.

I never make all to all comparison but for ajax specific comparison. I ask for help. Any way now most of my issue is solved by IBM Article

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/web/library/wa-aj-jsf1.html

Hi, I have another question regarding this discussion. Gurus what do you prefer when developing with JSF, handwriting JSF tags or using visual designers such as one in Netbeans 6.0?
David O'Meara
Rancher

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 13459

"Hi Jacker",
Welcome to the JavaRanch.

We're a friendly group, but we do require members to have valid display names.

Display names must be two words: your first name, a space, then your last name. Fictitious names are not allowed.

Please edit your profile and correct your display name since accounts with invalid display names get deleted, often without warning

thanks,
Dave
Mark Spritzler
ranger
Sheriff

Joined: Feb 05, 2001
Posts: 17260
    
    6

And "Hi Jacker" is living up to his fake name by hijacking this thread.

If you are really interested in your question being answered, please post it as a new thread. Thanks

Mark
Zhaidarbek Ayazbayev
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 18, 2007
Posts: 6
I am very sorry, next time i'll be more accurate.
 
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