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iBatis follows JPA?

Jaikiran Pai
Marshal

Joined: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 10033
    
163

Does iBatis follow JPA spec?


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Clinton Begin
author
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 08, 2006
Posts: 21
No, absolutely not. :-)

There are two reasons, which I'll only speak for myself on (other iBATIS team members may feel differently):

1) iBATIS isn't an ORM in the strict definition sense. JPA was developed jointly between mainly the Hibernate team and the Oracle TopLink team. It is heavily focused on strict ORM semantics. So iBATIS simply wouldn't easily fit the paradigm.

2) I think JPA is a bad idea. It's a spec that should have never been written. Hibernate and TopLink were both great products without the JPA spec, and I don't see any benefit coming from the spec itself. If anything, it will damage one or both of those two frameworks in that the spec will cause them to: A) lose their competetive advantage by catering to the lowest common denominator, or B) totally break the spec to achieve a competetive advantage, which therefore makes the spec less useful or possibly even useless.

JPA is another Sun/JCP imposition on decent software that already works well. In this respect, it is not much better than CMP.

Cheers,
Clinton
Jaikiran Pai
Marshal

Joined: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 10033
    
163

No, absolutely not. :-)


With EJB3.0 catching up and JPA being accepted as a spec by the application server vendors, wouldnt this mean that iBatis will not be considered for managing EJB3.0 entities by any of the appliaction servers. For example, JBoss is using Hibernate to manage the entities in EJB3.0. So, would iBatis be used only in scenarios where the application itself manages the persistence?

1) iBATIS isn't an ORM in the strict definition sense.


I was under the impression that iBatis was exactly similar to Hibernate. Looks like i am wrong.


2) I think JPA is a bad idea. It's a spec that should have never been written. Hibernate and TopLink were both great products without the JPA spec, and I don't see any benefit coming from the spec itself. If anything, it will damage one or both of those two frameworks in that the spec will cause them to: A) lose their competetive advantage by catering to the lowest common denominator, or B) totally break the spec to achieve a competetive advantage, which therefore makes the spec less useful or possibly even useless.


Can't comment on this, since i dont have a in-depth knowledge about JPA
Clinton Begin
author
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 08, 2006
Posts: 21
With EJB3.0 catching up and JPA being accepted as a spec by the application server vendors, wouldnt this mean that iBatis will not be considered for managing EJB3.0 entities by any of the appliaction servers.


No, I don't think so. Why? Many reasons, here are a few:

1) The most popular frameworks of the last 12 years that Java has existed do not follow any standards. Struts, Spring and Hibernate do not conform to any specification, and yet they are more popular than Sun's spec based solutions.

2) iBATIS wasn't CMP compliant either, yet many people use it with stateless session bean designs.

3) I think the days of the monolith application server are over. They will be replaced by very simple, high performance servlet containers that run applications built on top of full stack frameworks like Rife. The popularity of Ruby on Rails has shown the industry a new way of working, and it's not beyond the reach of Java developers. We can do 90% of what rails does without throwing out the benefits of the Java, the JVM and the investment of the last 12 years. But app servers and Sun/JCP specs are not the way it will happen.

Just my opinion of course... ;-)

Cheers,
Clinton
Jaikiran Pai
Marshal

Joined: Jul 20, 2005
Posts: 10033
    
163

Thanks Clinton, that clears most of my misconception about iBatis. I was of the opinion that iBatis and Hibernate were two tools trying to achieve the same cause with different implementations. Your answers on this thread as well as some other threads indicates it's not the case.

Thanks again
 
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