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Web Service use in traditional batch processing

HS Thomas
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Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 3404
If in your system you have started building components can these same components be easily used in a batched Web Service document-producing system for internal use to replace traditional batch document producing.
Or would you not want to overload the network at this stage in the game ?
A possible use of Web Service so that it can take off quicker ?
regards
[ May 07, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
Lasse Koskela
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Joined: Jan 23, 2002
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I think the relevant questions are
1) whether using Web Services affects the batch processing system's performance (i.e. does the WS-layer become the bottleneck), and
2) whether you gain any advantage from using Web Services (e.g. do the tools improve developers' efficiency, can you reuse the service, etc.)


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HS Thomas
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Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 3404
2) whether you gain any advantage from using Web Services (e.g. do the tools improve developers' efficiency, can you reuse the service, etc.)

I imagine the answers to these would be yes.
Take an address component , the reusable business rules have been defined and pre-built (access to a data-base - a Component Assembly Platform realises that this is a Web Service document and removes the performance overheads associated with database connections or better still this is done at run-time ).The presentation layer may also be pre-defined and re-used (some sort of template). With all the mail that gets junked around the world and arrives at your mail-box within a few minutes, I can't imagine why that should present a problem on an internal Web Service layer.
I imagine that's all an internal Web Service document producing batch system would require.
Or are you saying that you'd require the processing power equivalent to a small fraction of the internet to provide those sort of service levels. :roll:
In which case that would present a problem.
[ May 07, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
Lasse Koskela
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Regarding the needed processing power...
I think e-mail is a bit different from typical batch processing. For me, "batch processing" means something like crunching 2 gigabytes of purchase orders in the backend in a 4-hour time window during the dark hours. For these kind of applications, I don't see much use for Web Services.
Lasse Koskela
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Joined: Jan 23, 2002
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Originally posted by Lasse Koskela:
For these kind of applications, I don't see much use for Web Services.

Having that said, I did come up with a scenario where Web Services would be useful for batch processing from a certain perspective...
Say you have a lot of data to process and don't want to buy a room full of $$$ mainframes for the task because it happens to be highly seasonal and for the rest of the time they'd be running Quake tournaments for the maintenance staff
With this fictional scenario in mind, Web Services could be used for implementing a grid application using the cheap wintel iron spread around the office. Other alternatives such as Jini/JXTA/etc. could perform better but on the other hand, SOAP over HTTP would not be limited by firewalls.
HS Thomas
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Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 3404
Thanks Lasse ,I take your point.
I think there could still be an advantage in using re-usable components to build the document.
But use traditional processing to produce it.
What sort of applications is Web Service good for . I believe not good for heavy transaction processing applications.
regards
Ramesh Nagappan
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Joined: May 06, 2003
Posts: 159
Originally posted by HS Thomas:
If in your system you have started building components can these same components be easily used in a batched Web Service document-producing system for internal use to replace traditional batch document producing.
Or would you not want to overload the network at this stage in the game ?
A possible use of Web Service so that it can take off quicker ?
regards
[ May 07, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]

It is obviously possible, the standards are still evolving to support Batch processing environment. Typically this accomplished using Web services Choreography and workflow engines having adapters to Batch processing environments.


Ramesh Nagappan CISSP<br />Co-Author of "Core Security Patterns"<br />nramesh@post.harvard.edu<br /><a href="http://www.coresecuritypatterns.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.coresecuritypatterns.com</a>
HS Thomas
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Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 3404
With this fictional scenario in mind, Web Services could be used for implementing a grid application using the cheap wintel iron spread around the office. Other alternatives such as Jini/JXTA/etc. could perform better but on the other hand, SOAP over HTTP would not be limited by firewalls.

Would the maintenance staff still be able to play the all important Quake tournament ?
And need they know or care what's been done to the cheap wintel iron around the office ?
Does seem a lot of trouble to go to with the same end result. Unless you can think of a way to use the grid application to liven up the Quake tournament..... and keep your maintenance staff happy to get up at 2 am to keep your production system going. (Pay me more usually works for me - less if you've got the Quake tournament really livened up)
regards
HS Thomas
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Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 3404
Thanks ,Ramesh and Lasse, for the food for thought.
One to watch out for as I seem to hit more batch processes than I care to admit.
regards
HS Thomas
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Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 3404
I suspect this may be a reality sooner than you think. Companies concentrating on providing operational management services both onshore and offshore are jumping on the Web Service bandwagon and concentrating solely on this technology.
Along with Quality Assurance and all that.
You may have some nice standards all firmed up shortly . Could be a nice niche to get into....
regards
[ May 08, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
 
It is sorta covered in the JavaRanch Style Guide.
 
subject: Web Service use in traditional batch processing