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I hear Web Services are old technologies wearing new hats.

HS Thomas
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Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 3404
Well, the question says it all ! Are XML/HTTP and SOAP two different things ? How much simpler than XML/HTTP can you get ?
Can you use EJBs in a Web Service mode ?
I believe Web Services are bigger components than EJBs but smaller than monolithic applications.So can you have several EJB components making up a Web Service or is creating the Web Service directly much simpler and more effective .

regards
[ August 04, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
Tim Holloway
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Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 16014
    
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Yes, XML/HTTP and SOAP are definitely very different. SOAP is an XML-based protocol for encapsulated message transmission, and one of its characteristics is that although HTTP often IS used as the transport mechanism, JMS, email and other transports are equally valid.
How much simpler can you get? Well, the HTTP x-forms POST format is a vairable name on a line followed by a value on a line, repeat as needed. No need to pick apart a lot of tags and attributes. On the other hand, all those tags and attributes have their uses when you're talking about complex and/or structured data transmission, so don't write off XML just on the basis of overhead.
Venders like BEA (WebLogic) and IBM (WebSphere) have been making a lot of effort to supply frameworks for web services with EJBs. You might want to download an evaluation kit and try the tutorial sessions.


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HS Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 3404
Thanks Tim.
Could you post me a link to a tutorial, please.
I found this one which has a good practical example in it.Besides I liked the slides but nothing on the IBM developerworks/frameworks site.
Web Services
Note the benefits on slide 17.
Reduced skills, Reduced cost of ownership.
compared against:
Reduced Time-to-market and improved performance.
Where is the logic in that ?
Actually found this link regardsSpeed start Web Services. It may be buried in there somewhere. Hope it's free!
Thanks.
[ August 04, 2003: Message edited by: HS Thomas ]
Tim Holloway
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Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 16014
    
  20

Although you may be able to find a copy of the BEA tutorial on their website, I know there's extensive examples in the download for WebLogic.
I take the whole Web Services thing with about a kilogram of salt. SOAP in Microsoft's View was in many ways just their way of getting something like RMI-IIOP for DCOM/.Net. Which is to say, allowing simpler webapp development by permitting the webapp to be designed more like a client/server app than as a transactional message-based system. The flaw in that idea was pointed out in an article I read in Java Pro recently - Internet response times are nontrivial and not guaranteed.
The SINGLE biggest flaw in SOAP is that it makes a web app programmmable. There are times when this is a Good Thing. On the other hand, it's excessive programmability that made Microsoft Outlook get called "Microsoft! Look Out!".
In general, I look to Web Services when a great degree of flexibility is needed. Specifically, when cross-connecting heterogeneous systems in-house or when providing services to the world on a subscription-type basis. That is, where the message formats may change and the clients need to accomodate.
For simpler requests, the overhead is a bit much. I can still do an awful lot with a GET-type URL returning lines of text.
 
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