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first impression

Juan Rolando Prieur-Reza
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Joined: Jun 20, 2003
Posts: 236
For what its worth, here's my first impression of the WS Patterns book based on skimming Chapter 3.
Good work. If the remaining chapters and patterns follow the same structure, this book would be useful in a particular way that most design-patterns books fall short. Specifically, it gives both high-level concept, as well as lowly implementation-level details and tries to show how to get from one to the other in your mind. It presents the details not in terms of lengthy examples, as do most d.p. books, but rather it states the necessary classes and points the way how to put it together. Although the design patterns convention requires examples and known uses, this is appropriate.
Finally, this is not a rehash of other design patterns narratives. It seems that it would be useful to WS developers. - just my thoughts.


Juan Rolando Prieur-Reza, M.S., LSSBB, SCEA, SCBCD, SCWCD, SCJP/1.6, IBM OOAD, SCSA
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

J,
Thanks!
Is it for beginners?


Groovy
JeanLouis Marechaux
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Joined: Nov 12, 2001
Posts: 906
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
J,
Thanks!
Is it for beginners?

No, it is not.
The book is defined as "intermediate-advanced" by the publisher himself.
[ December 03, 2003: Message edited by: Jean-Louis Marechaux ]

/ JeanLouis<br /><i>"software development has been, is, and will remain fundamentally hard" (Grady Booch)</i><br /> <br />Take a look at <a href="http://www.epfwiki.net/wikis/openup/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Agile OpenUP</a> in the Eclipse community
Paul Monday
Author
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Joined: Aug 28, 2003
Posts: 41
Thanks for the first comment, I appreciate the compliment. It was a VERY difficult book to write...much more difficult than I expected.
I tried to span from several "learning" chapters (basically giving the foundation patterns and architecture for Web Services) to the primitives that you end up building with your Web Services, to a few tricks and techniques with Web Services. There is an interesting (IMHO) hidden thread that jumps out late in the book. In the early stages of the book I use the "simple" Axis support to build Java classes and expose them as Web Services automatically. This runs into severe limitations that I resolve in "Exploring the Physical Tiers Pattern".
I think if there are a few messages that I would want you to walk away from the book with, they would be:
- Web Services are not objects, nor are services in any sustainable service-oriented architectures. The forces on Web Service designs (unpredictable client architectures and applications, pluggable services, etc...) are such that you want to go back to basics in the interface design.
- Focus on the MODEL and allow Web Services to facilitate the model. What this means is that you should be very wary of the interface you open up and the models you publish in a UDDI server. Web Services do NOT solve eBusiness and distributed supply chain problems...they just level the playing field for the enabling technology. You still have to "negotiate" the business processes, interfaces, and service granularities with your partners. Try to adopt standards for interfaces and processes whenever possible...overcoming the "Not Invented Here" syndrome for the models will help you in the long run.
- Be careful to use Web Services when appropriate, no more, no less.
- Try not to start from scratch with these technologies, Web Services are complex and building an Enterprise application can be a formiddable challenge (look at the installation dependencies in the appendix if you want a clue as to the environment complexity)
Paul Monday


Paul B. Monday<br />Author, Web Service Patterns: Java Edition
Mark Ju
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Joined: May 20, 2003
Posts: 117
Ok, to be more precise, is it for Web Services intermediate-advanced users? I am relatively new to Web Services, but not to Java/J2EE. Is this book appropriate? I'm also considering Monsoon-Hafel (spelling?) new Web Services book.
Any suggestions/advice?
Paul Monday
Author
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Joined: Aug 28, 2003
Posts: 41
Both books appropriate for you, IMHO. Java experience is the major pre-requisite for my own. I tried to flip through the pages of the book you mentioned (this would have been easier if the Amazon pages worked better with Mozilla).
To be honest, there is a fundamental difference between my own book and many of the books out there (including this one). I have to be careful here, I have a TON of respect for Addison-Wesley publishing (my first two books were published with them). I'm sure this book is of very high quality.
The distinction between my own book and most of the books out there is simply that I've really tried to "abstract" away the Web Services infrastructure. Almost every Web Services book available (including this one) have substantial portions of the book dedicated to the individual technologies that comprise Web Services. These books are kind of cool since you get down to the bits so, if you are going to implement Web Services and really want to understand the details, these types of books are excellent (and, again, my guess is that this one is exceptional as well).
My belief about Web Services is that, at some point, we have to elevate away from the platform technologies and into what you are building ON TOP OF the platform...this area is where the payoff is. Think about the WSDL standards. I would hope that Joe VisualBasic programmer doesn't have to read a book about WSDL and UDDI to take advantage of Google's Web Service...or, dare I say, SAP's Web Services. So, I took a bit of a risk with my own book and tried to move away from the platform and technologies into the structures that you end up exposing from Web Services.
I DO cover a little WSDL, UDDI (no XML...sorry), and such...but I cover them in the context of the 3 basic patterns that form the Web Services architecture (Service Oriented Architecture, Architecture Adapter (the thing that lets us get away from the bits), and Service Directory)). My assumption is that I have given you references and places to look for additional information on the base technologies.
So, this book is intermediate-advanced in a few ways:
- If you want to dig deeper into a particular Web Service technology (JAX-R, UDDI, WSDL, etc...) you need to look outside of this book
- I assume that you are comfortable with XML and glossing over many "details" and are more concerned with the "high order bits"
Does this help you out?
Mark Ju
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Joined: May 20, 2003
Posts: 117
Paul,
Yes! It answered my question and more. I think I am leaning more towards your book because I'm anticipating the standards to change rapidly and do not want to devote myself too prematurely to memorizing fleeting standards. Also, since I have no pending projects that require Web Services, I think a higher view of WS is perfect for me.
Thanks for taking the time,
Chris
Paul Monday
Author
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Joined: Aug 28, 2003
Posts: 41
No problem Chris...I had the EXACT same feeling about Web Services which is why I took the approach I did.
I hope you enjoy the book if you do buy it (OR WIN IT
It should get you grounded in the theories and goals enough that you can make sense out of the individual technologies when the time is right.
Paul
Juan Rolando Prieur-Reza
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Joined: Jun 20, 2003
Posts: 236
Thanks, Paul, and the others.
I would add my opinion about the usefulness of your fine book to intermediate-advanced readers. I feel that anyone who is well-versed in OOAD and Design Patterns, but who is a complete newbie in Web Services would also benefit very much by starting with this book. This is because design patterns is at once a "language" in which such a person would be fluent, making it easier to grasp WS. As you pointed out, "the abstractions" tied to the details are difficult to discover and present. At least D.P. provides a well-known structure for abstractions+details. What some books on language technologies lack is a good exposition of "how to put it all toghether" as a designer or implementer. D.P. addresses this need.
Paul Monday
Author
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Joined: Aug 28, 2003
Posts: 41
Thanks John.
I'm "hoping" that the book is well received enough that I can work on a J2EE Edition of the book at some point in time. All of this type of feedback is useful to me as an author and as an architect.
Matt R. Hansen
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Joined: Sep 05, 2001
Posts: 71
Paul,
This book sounds like it covers exactly what a Patterns book should cover. Was it difficult to keep things at an abstract level when it would be so easy to dive into details of the technology? Were there "patterns" of your own that you used when writing this book.
 
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