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This Weeks Giveaway

Carl Trusiak
Sheriff

Joined: Jun 13, 2000
Posts: 3340
This week's book giveaway is "Professional Java Mobile Programming", and the Author, Richard Taylor, is on-line!
Matt Midcap gave this book 10 Horseshoes! "The bottom line: This book gives a detailed and in-depth look at J2ME technologies, design, and architecture."
Everyone give Richard a warm JavaRanch welcome

I Hope This Helps
Carl Trusiak, SCJP2, SCWCD
Ajith Kallambella
Sheriff

Joined: Mar 17, 2000
Posts: 5782
Welcome aboard Richard. We're glad to have you with us this week.
A friendly reminder to all the participants - please make sure your registered name complies with the JavaRanch naming policy. We require names to have at least two words, separated by a space, and strongly recommend that you use your full real name. Without a proper name, you will not qualify for the book giveaway!
Thanks!
------------------
Ajith Kallambella M.
Sun Certified Programmer for the Java�2 Platform.
IBM Certified Developer - XML and Related Technologies, V1.


Open Group Certified Distinguished IT Architect. Open Group Certified Master IT Architect. Sun Certified Architect (SCEA).
Balaji Loganathan
author and deputy
Bartender

Joined: Jul 13, 2001
Posts: 3150
Welcome to the world of JavaRanch... Mr Richard Taylor,
I'm happy that u r here to help us....Warm Welcome...!!!...

Originally posted by Carl Trusiak:
This week's book giveaway is "Professional Java Mobile Programming", and the Author, Richard Taylor, is on-line!
Matt Midcap gave this book 10 Horseshoes! "The bottom line: This book gives a detailed and in-depth look at J2ME technologies, design, and architecture."
Everyone give Richard a warm JavaRanch welcome


Spritle Software Blogs
Scott Matthews
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 28, 2001
Posts: 36
Sorry for such a "green" question, but what does what does Java Mobile Programming deal with and mean.
I am new to java, about 6 months and have not heard of this.
Thanks
Senthil Sambandam
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 31, 2001
Posts: 1
Welcome Richard
Nice to be with you.
ravi bask
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 05, 2001
Posts: 58
Richard - "JavaRanch welcomes u "

i am so glad that u r here to help us, we would like to know what is the future for j2me ..
thinking.....................
chanoch wiggers
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 24, 2001
Posts: 245
I hope that richard doesnt mind me answering for him.
My name is chanoch and I was the architect for the book. (I put it together, chose the authors, reviewed their work, etc)
java mobile programming is about programming for small devices. We show how to program for palm tops, set top boxes, phones with java on them and java cards. We also show how location sensitive services will work once they are available to java devices.
of these, programming for phones with java on them is probably the most widely available to developers at the moment. You can also use the same technology to program palms, handsprings, and similar palm top devices.

chanoch<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1861007736/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Author of Professional Apache Tomcat</a></p>
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Welcome Richard Taylor and Chanoch Wiggers.
--Mark Herschberg, J2ME forum Bartender
Richard Taylor
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 19, 2001
Posts: 45
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
Welcome Richard Taylor and Chanoch Wiggers.
--Mark Herschberg, J2ME forum Bartender

I'm here - hiding in European time!
Thanks for the welcome.


Richard Taylor <br />Author of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1861003897/ref=ase_electricporkchop" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Professional Java Mobile Programming</a>
Richard Taylor
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 19, 2001
Posts: 45
Originally posted by Scott Matthews:
Sorry for such a "green" question, but what does what does Java Mobile Programming deal with and mean.
I am new to java, about 6 months and have not heard of this.
Thanks

No problem.
Java Mobile Programming is programming for detached, unwired devices, by which we mean phones, PDAs, pagers, and any funky combination of those items. (I say 'we' since the book is definitely not a solo effort - at least 8 other people contributed to it. There's a lot of expertise in there...)
The actual Java specifications and technologies it deals is pretty diverse, but the major 'new' one is J2ME - Java 2 Micro Edition - probably best described simplistically as a cut-down version of standard desktop Java, i.e. J2SE.
The devices we cover range from smart cards up to full-blown keyboard PDAs, so its quite a range.
The problems, as you can imagine, are that these devices do NOT have enough resources to support standard Java, in general. For example, the average phone is not a good tool for scrolling selectable windows, with mouse input! You get the idea...
So what Sun (and other enterprising independent companies) have done is to specify several specifications to try and define the minimum possible Java functionality for each sort of device. An example is for phones and pagers (and possibly low quality PDAs) they have defined the J2ME Connected Limited Device Configuration (CLDC) and Mobile Information Device Profile (MIDP) .
These are definitions of the supported classes for MIDP-compliant devices. For example, they have defined a set of simple UI classes suitable for very small phone screens, etc.

OK, that's the first chapter over with :-)
Hope that gives you some food for thought...
Prashanth menon
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 20, 2001
Posts: 65
Another green question.
I have been working on the Java on a PC, n tier architecture so to say. j2me I suppose deals with emmbedded programming. Now how does one go about programming for wireless devices,I mean the platform. How is the program tested and implemented.
thank you
Prashanth
Jim Rock
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 20, 2001
Posts: 39
I am looking forward to having Mr. Taylor available online! Not many books come as highly rated as his!
Richard Taylor
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 19, 2001
Posts: 45
Originally posted by Prashanth menon:
Another green question.
I have been working on the Java on a PC, n tier architecture so to say. j2me I suppose deals with emmbedded programming. Now how does one go about programming for wireless devices,I mean the platform. How is the program tested and implemented.
thank you
Prashanth

J2ME is NOT embedded. Or rather, the core libraries are (CLDC and MIDP, typcially), since the device manufacturer delivers the device with them pre-loaded, but your program can be loaded onto the device over the air (OTA, as its known in the trade!). Cool!
So, what we have here is the ability to:
- discover MIDlets (manufacturer's specific software)
- download MIDlets (manufacturers implementation, but there is an OTA appendix to MIDP)
- start the MIDlet once its downloaded
- get that MIDlet to connect up remotely back top your servlet and load/save data
Good stuff, eh!
It gets better - J2ME allows you to save data locally on the device, as well. This let's you save the application state, save data loaded from your server, and temporarily save data if the mobile loses its signal.
The world is your mobile oyster, but beware that the greatest challenge is the limited capabilities of mobile devices - it takes skill and thought to get the best out out of a monochrome screen that is 96*80 pixels in size...
Developing:
- use Sun's J2MEWTK from java.sun.com/products/midp
- a text editor or IDE
Testing:
- buy a device. Motorola will sell you one right now if you join their MAGNET developers group. Its costs nothing to join, but the device is cost, of course...
- buy a Palm or get a Palm emulator
Deployment:
- suss out the OTA specification for your chosen device (see other posting here for Motorola secrets...)
- place the J2ME application on your web server
- download over the air
- play :-)
Problems:
- J2ME is restricted compared to J2SE, so don't expect the world. These are small devices with slow processors and minimal memory.
- very few applications written for J2SE can directly translate successfully to a mobile. You need to consider what a user wants to do when on a mobile. They want small bits of information as rapidly as possible. No-one wants to read War and Peace, or wait for a (relatively) huge image to download.
- OTA methods from different device vendors are likely to differ, which will be a pain. But not as much of a pain as WAP gateways...
Time for bed in Europe, so see you tomorrow...
Madhav Lakkapragada
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 03, 2000
Posts: 5040

Will I get a Palmmmmm with thhaaaaaattttt?
you know....just asking...
- satya
Originally posted by Carl Trusiak:
This week's book giveaway is "Professional Java Mobile Programming", and the Author, Richard Taylor, is on-line!
Matt Midcap gave this book 10 Horseshoes! "The bottom line: This book gives a detailed and in-depth look at J2ME technologies, design, and architecture."
Everyone give Richard a warm JavaRanch welcome


Take a Minute, Donate an Hour, Change a Life
http://www.ashanet.org/workanhour/2006/?r=Javaranch_ML&a=81
Richard Taylor
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 19, 2001
Posts: 45
Originally posted by ravi bask:
Richard - "JavaRanch welcomes u "

i am so glad that u r here to help us, we would like to know what is the future for j2me ..
thinking.....................

Well, the cosy view would be that J2ME will be on every mobile device sold in three years time, so the market will be bigger than PCs. Since J2ME uses the basic J2SE core libraries developing applications, in theory, shouldn't be too difficult.
The complications come with the skill of packing in functionality without making apps too big or too slow. These devices are not Pentium beasts - they're Sinclair Spectrums, or similar! Well, OK, a little better, but not much.
Also, the operators (in the UK) at least may be tempted to try and charge too much for devices and services initially, because they have spent so much on 3G licences, and their share holders are asking where is the profit?
But I think the positive view will win - Java will be on all mobile devices within a few years, so now's the time to start planning, experimenting and introducing it to customers that don't even know it exists. The devices are available now, so you can show your applications live to prospective customers, and get them thinking...
chanoch wiggers
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 24, 2001
Posts: 245
yeah, I was at a conference and you should have seen the stuff java was on:
palm tops, cameras, mobile phones, not so mobile phones, tvs, cable service boxes, cars, web tablets, clothers!!!, credit cards, business cards, a toaster (just the one), and many more
richard is right about the problem with people charging too much and making it hard to get into this field in europe - in a recent release of an organizer and emailer called the blackberry the companies announced that no 3rd party applications would be allowed - only their own programs were allowed on the devices.
in the us they are not introducing the blackberry device with java because of all the c or c++ devices out there at the moment which wouldnt run the new programs so some time to wait.
oh well.... it shoudl get better over the next year and a half.

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Chanoch Wiggers
Architect for Professional Java Mobile Programming
Tom Angioletti
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 10
Welcome Richard.
I'm new to the J2ME, but I just got a Handspring Prism and the idae of running Java on it is very exiting.
Does your book cover Jini? What's involved with running Jini under the J2ME?
-Tom
Richard Taylor
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 19, 2001
Posts: 45
No, Jini isn't covered, mainly because its not there yet for J2ME. RMI is the missing chunk.
Have a read here to see the progress: http://www.jcp.org/jsr/detail/66.jsp
There are a lot of people waiting for it though, so you may find other papers/press releases out there. For example: http://www.valaran.com/release6.htm
By the way, the whole list of J2ME JSRs is at: http://www.jcp.org/jsr/tech/j2me.jsp
Richard Taylor
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 19, 2001
Posts: 45
Let me correct that last post I did - RMI is an option for Personal Java only. In other words you can run Jini on the larger PDAs. So that's probably an iPaq, or similar.
Personal Java will soon migrate to the J2ME CDC-based Personal Profile, so your applications will be J2ME-compliant when that happens.
------------------
Richard Taylor
Author of Professional Java Mobile Programming
Johannes de Jong
tumbleweed
Bartender

Joined: Jan 27, 2001
Posts: 5089
Hi Richard Welcome.
Good to see you are on European time so I might still get an answer before you "ride off in the sunset" ([i]hope not we like having you guys around [i][)
    My questions
  • Do you know anything about IBM's Pervasive Computing
  • Is this separate from J2ME or an extentsion ie. added functionality
  • I'm an Java hobby'ist. Would you consider programming for "micro" devices a good specialization erea of Java to get involved in ?
  • And do I start with JM2ME, Nokia, Palm, IBM's PVC, what/where ???

Richard Taylor
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 19, 2001
Posts: 45
Originally posted by Johannes de Jong:
Hi Richard Welcome.
    My questions
  • Do you know anything about IBM's Pervasive Computing
  • Is this separate from J2ME or an extentsion ie. added functionality
  • I'm an Java hobby'ist. Would you consider programming for "micro" devices a good specialization erea of Java to get involved in ?
  • And do I start with JM2ME, Nokia, Palm, IBM's PVC, what/where ???

IBM do have a Java solution, and its reputedly very fast. It's called J9, and I believe its specifically for the Palm ( I could be wrong) but the bad news is its not J2ME-compatible. However, they're looking to fix that, which would be great, because MIDP4Palm is a little slow...
Is J2ME a good thing to specialize in? Well, strangely enough, probably not, if you mean professionally. The reason I say that is because the value not just in coding for a mobile device, but getting that device talking to a back-end. You need both server-side and client side skills - then you're really worth something! But J2ME is certainly worth watching, and undserstanding the limitations. There's a lot you can do with it, once you understand its limitations (and also, more importantly, what users want to do when they're not in the office/home - that's probably the biggest lesson).
------------------
Richard Taylor
Author of Professional Java Mobile Programming
Johannes de Jong
tumbleweed
Bartender

Joined: Jan 27, 2001
Posts: 5089
Thanks Richard. What is your area of specialization ?.
satish bora
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 16, 2001
Posts: 18
Welcome Richard on this Forum.
It has been said speedwise java is still slow compare to traditional languages like c, c++. How this matters to J2ME programming?
Rgds
Satish


Sa
Richard Taylor
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 19, 2001
Posts: 45
Originally posted by Johannes de Jong:
Thanks Richard. What is your area of specialization ?.

Back from my hols - apologies for the delay.
I specialize in the 'mobile internet', by which I mean gaining access (in both directions) to remote data from a mobile device. As simple as that. Right now that means a front end of WAP, possibly cHTML, and J2ME, coupled to a back-end of J2EE or some part (like servlets, JMS, and so on). I tend to stik with Java solutions because I don't have to re-invent the wheel, the libraries are usually pretty comprehensive, the tools run on most machines (PC, Linux), and finally I can usually test on Win98 and deploy to Linux without code changes.
I tend to do three things for money (actually, there's many things I'd do for lots of money - but that's another story...):
- consult/evangelize
- code
- project manage/team lead

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Richard Taylor
Author of Professional Java Mobile Programming
Richard Taylor
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 19, 2001
Posts: 45
Originally posted by satish bora:
Welcome Richard on this Forum.
It has been said speedwise java is still slow compare to traditional languages like c, c++. How this matters to J2ME programming?
Rgds
Satish

Right now, it matters a lot, which is unfortunate. If you run the MIDP for Palm, its pretty slow. However, in the long term, just like in the PC world, the mobile device processing power will overtake the language requirements, and the performance will be a minor detail. I reckon that might take somewhere between 2 and 4 years, at a guess.
So, I think the advice must be code carefully now, but expect more power, and more libraries/RAM capability in the near future.
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Richard Taylor
Author of Professional Java Mobile Programming
 
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