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J2ME Hot or not?

Thomas Mcfarrow
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 09, 2001
Posts: 137
Whats everybodies opinion on the future of J2ME. Do you think its going to gain in popularity or the reverse.
Just trying to figure out what a good technology to learn and add to my skill set.

Thanks in advance..
M.K.A. Monster
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 02, 2002
Posts: 130
Originally posted by Thomas Mcfarrow:
Whats everybodies opinion on the future of J2ME. Do you think its going to gain in popularity or the reverse.
Just trying to figure out what a good technology to learn and add to my skill set.

Thanks in advance..

Java2ME is super HOT.
Jeff Allen
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 09, 2002
Posts: 20
My whole Java goal is to get to work in that area. It's red hot to me!
Tero Ahonen
Greenhorn

Joined: May 24, 2001
Posts: 26
Nokia and many other manyfacturer is bringing many new Java phones to the markets and after one year or something Java is a standard feature in mobile phones and PDA devices....so I think also that J2ME is super HOT.
[ May 13, 2002: Message edited by: Tero Ahonen ]

-Tero
Shannon Brown
Greenhorn

Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 3
J2Me is a nice toolkit and is increasingly adopted by mobile computer/device manufacturers.
I am not sure, however, if this is a skill set that one focuses upon. The J2ME toolkit is currently fairly limited and most projects require small investments in this specific technology -- more focus is placed on the J2EE backend.
Steve Holmes
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 01, 2000
Posts: 19
One nice thing about J2ME is that it is extremely easy to build apps with and there is a number of excellent books. At least when you're talking about phones and Palm. When it comes to larger PDAs PersonalJava is still the King. CDC, the Foundation Profile and the CVM don't seem to be implemented on any devices yet.
Mangesh Kakade
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 3
Is it really hot Becoz the speed of applications are slow as compare to WAP
sing
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 29, 2001
Posts: 121
How is the speed of transferring data from server to mobile? Will it be slow as WAP?
Steffy
[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: SteffySY Sing ]
M.K.A. Monster
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 02, 2002
Posts: 130
Originally posted by SteffySY Sing:
How is the speed of transferring data from server to mobile? Will it be slow as WAP?
Steffy
[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: SteffySY Sing ]

I think that will depent on the network wich is used, if you use gprs it wil be a lot faster than gsm900.
Michael Yuan
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: 1427
Originally posted by Mangesh Kakade:
Is it really hot Becoz the speed of applications are slow as compare to WAP


I think one of the major advantage of smart applications over WAP is that they are faster.
If you want to do a complex transaction using WAP, you are likely to go back and forth across many little pages and spend a lot time downloading and submitting them. Smart applications allow you to store intermediate results on device and minimize network usage.
Sure J2ME smart applications are slower than native smart applications. But they are still faster than WAP, especially for complex transactions ...
my 2c
Michael


Seam Framework: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0137129394/mobileenterpr-20/
Ringful: http://www.ringful.com/
sing
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 29, 2001
Posts: 121
Originally posted by Michael Yuan:


I think one of the major advantage of smart applications over WAP is that they are faster.
If you want to do a complex transaction using WAP, you are likely to go back and forth across many little pages and spend a lot time downloading and submitting them. Smart applications allow you to store intermediate results on device and minimize network usage.
Sure J2ME smart applications are slower than native smart applications. But they are still faster than WAP, especially for complex transactions ...
my 2c
Michael


Michael,
"Smart applications allow you to store intermediate results on device and minimize network usage."
Can you show me tutorial/book that can guide me to perform this? Thanks you.
Michael Yuan
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: 1427
Originally posted by SteffySY Sing:


Michael,
"Smart applications allow you to store intermediate results on device and minimize network usage."
Can you show me tutorial/book that can guide me to perform this? Thanks you.


Well, it really depends on the type of function you want to perform. Most likely, you will need to make use of the data persistence APIs -- which basically allows you to store application data (intermediate results) on device.
All MIDP books cover this topic including the book that is currently advertised in this forum. But to get you started, have a look at those two articles in Sun's wireless java site:
Record Management System Basics
http://wireless.java.sun.com/midp/ttips/rmsbasics/
Enumerating, Filtering, and Sorting MIDP Record Stores
http://wireless.java.sun.com/midp/ttips/recordstores/
Sunit Mukherjee
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 28, 2001
Posts: 18
What are the major selling points for J2ME as compared to a native smart application? Is it just sheer ease of development of the application?
rajesh karmani
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 26, 2001
Posts: 23
All the big guns Nokia, Motorola and Siemens are not investing in J2ME for nothing. The simple and RAD-style development and portability regardless of the device and Sun's constant efforts to improve it makes it a hot technology.
Amir Kamran
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 21, 2002
Posts: 48
Hello!
According to some industry estimates, by the year 2004, the number of U.S. wireless data users will grow from 3 million to between 15 and 36 million, a five-fold increase or more. Wireless phones, personal digital assistants (PDAs), two-way pagers, and other wireless devices are driving a post-desktop era of information devices.
J2ME IS THE HOTEST! b/c the Java Technology is the best to handle such kind of scalablity. And also the security and platform independency.
Matthew Phillips
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 09, 2001
Posts: 2676
I agree with Amir. J2ME is not nearly as hot as it is going to be. As people move more to small memory footprint devices, we are going to see Java make an impact.


Matthew Phillips
Paul Tremblett
Author
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 26, 2002
Posts: 15
I do believe that J2ME has a bright future. While it's definitely cool and lots of fun, one should probably ask which would look more attractive on a resume - I'm strong in J2ME or I'm strong in Java/XML in an enterprise world? Isn't practicality a royal pain?


paul tremblett
saumil shukla
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 01, 2000
Posts: 47
Unless one has continuous exposure to embeded development no point in switching from Java/XML to J2ME/XML. I think J2ME will remain open for embeded developers.
Michael Yuan
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: 1427
Originally posted by Paul Tremblett:
I do believe that J2ME has a bright future. While it's definitely cool and lots of fun, one should probably ask which would look more attractive on a resume - I'm strong in J2ME or I'm strong in Java/XML in an enterprise world? Isn't practicality a royal pain?

Hmm, if I am strong in Java/XML enterprise world, you should probably assume that I can pick up J2ME quickly at anytime. Sort of like: "I know Java well; How hard C# can be?"
Michael Yuan
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: 1427
Originally posted by Sunit Mukherjee:
What are the major selling points for J2ME as compared to a native smart application? Is it just sheer ease of development of the application?

Many ...
1. Java application is portable (well, to some extent). That is a huge selling point for wireless applications due to the diversity of devices/OSes used.
2. Java has better security model etc. and can integrate tightly with J2EE backends.
3. Java is a better language that is mastered by many developers (compared with C/C++/C#);
4. It is easy to modularize and develop third party components in Java;
5. Strong industry support.
... ...
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
I spent 18 months as an architect at a J2ME based company. I believe J2ME has a future. As for hot, well, let's just say, it's warm for now.
For those wondering what skill sets you need, I suggest the following...
1) Build a basic app. This will get the J2ME buzzword on your resume. (I hate this, but I think it's currently a big help in the J2ME market)
2) Now for the real skills. Learn how Java really works! I've seen two many "Java Programmers" and SCJPs who think they know Java just because they can recall some APIs from memory. That's next to worthless. A good programmer understands what's going on under the cover. He or she understands what tradeoffs the JVM makes, and how to maximize performance in Java applications. This is especially important on small devices, constrained by memory, speed, and bandwidth. These are the skills I look for when hiring J2ME programmers.
--Mark
M.K.A. Monster
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 02, 2002
Posts: 130
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
1) Build a basic app. This will get the J2ME buzzword on your resume. (I hate this, but I think it's currently a big help in the J2ME market)

I'm sure everyone can learn this.

2) Now for the real skills. Learn how Java really works! I've seen two many "Java Programmers" and SCJPs who think they know Java just because they can recall some APIs from memory. That's next to worthless. A good programmer understands what's going on under the cover. He or she understands what tradeoffs the JVM makes, and how to maximize performance in Java applications. This is especially important on small devices, constrained by memory, speed, and bandwidth. These are the skills I look for when hiring J2ME programmers.

This is what really does the job. I'm originally a Java2SE developer but now I'm trying Java2ME. I first thought it was something the same, but there are many diferences. The main problem is to get maximum performance. That was not a problem in Java2SE, because all desktop pc's are fast nowdays.
I'd like to work on the performance skill, can anyone give me some links so I can read some articles about it?
Regards,
Mark Monster
[ May 15, 2002: Message edited by: M.K.A. Monster ]
Angela Margot
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 07, 2002
Posts: 80
I do J2EE and J2SE -- but I heard that at the JavaOne Conference that J2ME is RED HOT! It has to do with the upcoming release of the cell phones with Java...


Angela Margot <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <br />Sr. Software Engineer<br />SCJP2 SCWCD MCSD MCP
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by M.K.A. Monster:

I'd like to work on the performance skill, can anyone give me some links so I can read some articles about it?

I'd start by going to the JavaRanch performance forum and asking questions there. There are some good books, including one by Peter Haggar, Practical Java. You should also learn how JVMs are implamented and how they work. Obviously kVMs will be somewhat different, but the general ideas are the same, and you can pick that up more easily, having understood JVMs.
--Mark
Paul Tremblett
Author
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 26, 2002
Posts: 15
Originally posted by M.K.A. Monster:
[QB]
I'd like to work on the performance skill, can anyone give me some links so I can read some articles about it?
Check out wireless.java.sun.com. There's an article there now at /midp/articles/garbage by Nagendra Nagarajayya and J. Steven Mayer entitled "Improving Java[tm] Application Performance and Scalability by Reducing Garbage Collection Times and Sizing Memory ". It really gets down and dirty.
Also, check out http://wireless.java.sun.com/midp/ttips/. There's a wealth of information there from Eric Giguere. Everything he writes merits downloading and saving.
paul
Paul Tremblett
Author
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 26, 2002
Posts: 15
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:
[QB]
I'd start by going to the JavaRanch performance forum and asking questions there. There are some good books, including one by Peter Haggar
I definitely second the motion on Peter's book. If you ever get a chance to attend any presentations he gives, you should do so.
swaroop shastri
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 15, 2001
Posts: 65
J2ME is @ boiling point!
Doug Wang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 05, 2001
Posts: 445
Originally posted by Tero Ahonen:
Nokia and many other manyfacturer is bringing many new Java phones to the markets and after one year or something Java is a standard feature in mobile phones and PDA devices....so I think also that J2ME is super HOT.
[ May 13, 2002: Message edited by: Tero Ahonen ]

Tero,
Could you or someone else give me some examples of real Java phone in the market? Thanks.
[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: Doug Wang ]

Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep
Paul Tremblett
Author
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 26, 2002
Posts: 15
Originally posted by swaroop shastri:
J2ME is @ boiling point!

... but is it hot? The boiling point of water is 100 degrees. The boiling point of ether is far less. Just kidding. It's great to see somebody so enthused because if we didn't have such people, technology wouldn't advance. Go get 'em!
Ricardo Marques
Greenhorn

Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 27
Boiling water is rather warm when compared to J2ME!!!
J2ME was getting pretty hot pretty fast last year, as the market of mobile devices expanded.
Now, as it is getting to be a technology ever and ever better known and more widely distributed, it can only get hotter!!!
Watch out. This is the one kind of BURNT one will like to have!!!
[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: Ricardo Marques ]

Sun Certified Programmer for the Java 2 Platform 1.4<p>If I can create, I will make mistakes. If I can learn with them, it must be some kind of art.
Amir Kamran
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 21, 2002
Posts: 48
Check out this small quote from an artical by Andy Sullivan

"Why should I develop in J2ME for later when I can develop a specific application for Palm OS, Symbian, RIM, etc. and deploy it today?
Develop in J2ME because you care about the future of your business. Would you choose the milk with an expiration date three days from now just because it's the easiest to reach? Of course you wouldn't. You would take the extra 20 seconds to find milk that would last long enough for you to fully utilize it."
chanakya khatri
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 59
I believe that j2me applications are better then wap applications. In wap you have to download each wml page(with interface) when you want to display next screen. J2me offers offline support,in wap i heard this can be done to some extent by using wmlscript but its heavy.I just like j2me bcos its cool And other point is u can use existing pool of java developer and train them for j2me(learning curve is small). Look at article by Qusay H. Mahmoud on sun's website for J2ME and WAP comparison:
http://wireless.java.sun.com/midp/articles/midpwap/
 
Consider Paul's rocket mass heater.
 
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