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To Michael Yuan Need Help

jawwad ahmed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 01, 2001
Posts: 179
Well i have seen that u have written articles on J2me and have done a lot of research.
Well i u know any thing about how to locate any mobile device(Mobile/PocketPC/Palm).What its procedure/majors tools needed to develop.
I dont have idea of wirless much except have read some articles on the wireless technologies.
Will be greatful
Michael Yuan
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: 1427
Hi jawwad,
I am not sure whether I complete understand your question. But for PocketPC devices, you can use JVMs from Insignia or IBM (WebSphere Micro Environment or J9). Insignia supports MIDP v2.0 and PersonalJava. IBM supports MIDP v1.0 and PersonalJava. I understand that CDC/Personal Profile from both companies are coming soon.
For Palm devices, currently, only SUN's MIDP v1.0 reference implementation works. But with the release of the CLDC/PDA Profile, this will change. I believe that Palm will have a commercial implementation of the PDA Profile for their OSes.
cheers


Seam Framework: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0137129394/mobileenterpr-20/
Ringful: http://www.ringful.com/
Pete WesternHope
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 19
I think Jawwah is interested in techniques to determine the "location" of the mobile device. (See earlier posting)
I suggest - 1. support from telecomms company to "triangulate", 2. attach a GPS device. 3. Use locator service based on some significant landmark/address/geo-info. Map Point .Net (OUCH) can do this for you.
I would be very interested to hear of an automatable solution that does not need:
GPS - (as in 2) or user information (as in 3)
Have you any suggestions?
I am not sure what is coming in future profiles - I did hear something about support for location-based solutions - maybe this was more to do with obtaining nearby geo-data once location has been specified by another means.
Very interesting problem.
Kind regards
Pete
Yenonn Hiu
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 06, 2003
Posts: 9
To Micheal,
As what u had said PDAP will be released. But, when? It has been a long wait for this promise, but nothing is coming up!
jawwad ahmed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 01, 2001
Posts: 179
Well Michal , Pete WesternHope correctly identified my answer,I havnt deccide the technology yet.(The is important what is needed and how to do this).
1-Well Pete u say "Attach a GPS device to palm/mobile).
Actually the administrator will be veiwing from Desktop PC that where is his employee(employee will have palm/mobile).The admistrator can see his location not employee.
2-u say "Map Point .net,What it is.
3-Also teleocomm will do the triangulate.What do u mean my triangulate.(Poor Wireless Concept)
.
Please explain the above question.I cant find any solution of this.Will be great ful.
Michael Yuan
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: 1427


1-Well Pete u say "Attach a GPS device to palm/mobile).
Actually the administrator will be veiwing from Desktop PC that where is his employee(employee will have palm/mobile).The admistrator can see his location not employee.


Well, with a GPS receiver, both the employer and employee can see the location. You can program the phone to report back to a server every a couple of minutes.


2-u say "Map Point .net,What it is.


This is a GIS backend from Microsoft. It uses a SOAP Web Services interface -- so theoretically it can be accessed from anywhere. I am working on a demo J2ME client for it. I believe what Pete said was: The employee identify his position by a landmark, MP.NET calculates the coords and sends the corresponding map (or other GIS info) back. It is still an "employee driven" approach. So, might not apply to your situation.
Another thing to mention is that MP.NET is not the only GIS backend service. Oracle has great GIS services too and they are coming out a product specially for the J2ME market.


3-Also teleocomm will do the triangulate.What do u mean my triangulate.(Poor Wireless Concept)


This could be the best solution for your problem but it requires infrastructure support from wireless network operators. Basically, if you are in a cell network, the network can determine your position based on your signal strength received by three different antnnea in that area. The E911 initiative requires all US cell phone carieers to have this capability by 2004. But I believe it is delayed until 2007 or something.
Michael Yuan
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: 1427
Originally posted by Yenonn Hiu:
To Micheal,
As what u had said PDAP will be released. But, when? It has been a long wait for this promise, but nothing is coming up!

The PDA Profile has been long overdue. I had the feeling that Palm just is not that interested in the J2ME market. Also, with the more capable new Palm OS devices, they might be better off running CDC/PP than the restricted PDAP!
For now, if you program Palm PDAs, Sun's MIDP reference implementation runs just fine. IBM's J9 for Plam OS is compatible with MIDP and have added features (such as JDBC support).
jawwad ahmed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 01, 2001
Posts: 179
Thanks ..........You realy simplify my task.
Well u write.....

This could be the best solution for your problem but it requires infrastructure support from wireless network operators. Basically, if you are in a cell network, the network can determine your position based on your signal strength received by three different antnnea in that area. The E911 initiative requires all US cell phone carieers to have this capability by 2004. But I believe it is delayed until 2007 or something

There is something confusion.I am not working in cell phone network.Actually i am java programmer.
So do u mean if i choose this option i have not to follow the other options.(1 and 2).Waiting for your reply.Thanks
jawwad ahmed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 01, 2001
Posts: 179
One thing i have forget to tell www.xora.com is doing same thing how they are doing which technique.
Michael Yuan
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: 1427


There is something confusion.I am not working in cell phone network.Actually i am java programmer.
So do u mean if i choose this option i have not to follow the other options.(1 and 2).Waiting for your reply.Thanks

The idea is to have cell network operators expose their location services as a set of Java API or even Web Services -- so you can query the location of any phone from the backend.
There is a J2ME Location API is JCP right now. I think it has passed community review. We should be able to see it soon ...
Michael Yuan
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: 1427
I just realized the JSR 179
http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=179
is already in the public review!
jawwad ahmed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 01, 2001
Posts: 179
Thanks i am getting big picture in my mind now.Well Xora.com is doing via attaching GPS device?.Please clearify.And for .NET MAP includeing C# what else technology i have to learn ASP.NET/VB.NET.Waiting for reply.
Thanks
Michael Yuan
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 07, 2002
Posts: 1427
Originally posted by jawwad ahmed:
Thanks i am getting big picture in my mind now.Well Xora.com is doing via attaching GPS device?

I think Xora does exactly what I said in my earlier comment: The client finds out its location and report to the server periodically.
Pete WesternHope
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 19
Hello all
Apologies for being offline for a while.
It seems as though progress has been made. I am also interested in location determination and will watch this space for any great new ideas!
To be honest, I am considering the GPS route as accuracy is important to me plus, the mobile equipment may be unattended and, therefore, cannot rely on user input.
I am very intrigued by the "triangulation" info - I thought only government agencies had access to that info! ;-)) Could prove to be very useful indeed.
In another posting I asked if anyone knew of mobile equipment that supported serial comms. I was thinking of cheap j2me enabled cell-phone, but any low-cost device would do. The purpose of this was to provide for GPS connection. Any suggestions?
I also wanted crypto support in the j2me config/profile - the only suggestion so far was Motorola i95cl - not the cheapest of handsets!
This has a range of crypto support, presumably coded in java and probably quite slow - also has serial comms support.
Good luck Jawwad Ahmed - and thank you Michael Yuan for lots of excellent input.
Regards
Pete
Pete WesternHope
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 19
Hello again Jawwad
I you do go down the Map Point route (as Michael says, it is NOT the only route) - you would only need how to access a web-service. You do not have to use Microsoft technologies for that - there are alternatives.
Although in Java circles it is probably not very welcome, I do use .Net for this purpose. It has proved to be very, very easy to get a web-site and a PC application running to use MP .Net. Coding in C# is not necessary, you can use VB or J# (?!) - any .Net language. You don't have to learn much about ASP.Net for this to all work - it is very easy.
You can get an evaluation license for Map Point .Net from Microsoft - this will give 45 days to play around. Then you have to sign up to one of their license agreements. This is a business level decision that makes me shudder! :-) Great if you can pass the sign up and cost per transaction onto your client. But, for employee location tracking, you may want to think again.
An alternative to Map Point .Net, dependent on your needs and location of interest, is to use a locally installed product. Again, (sorry) I used Map Point North America and Map Point Europe. I can see no reason why your application can't use a local "locator" product. To do this you need to use Map Point as an ActiveX control in your app. Check licensing carefully if it is not a single user solution. I am sure Oracle have an excellent GIS offering too - although I do not know about it!
Have you decided which route you intend to follow?
Presumably: GPS and user input are the two most viable options.
GPS has advantages and disadvanatges. The advantage is that it can locate your employees wherever they are - even if in the middle of the desert ;-) It does not need user input.
The disadvantge is external device needed - sometimes with a slow initial satelite acquisition. Communicating with the GPS may need some clever work. Result is a lat/long that will not help your administrator decide where the employee is!
Presumably, the reason you need this system is because you cannot rely on the employee informing the administrator of his/her location. For example, "Hello admin, I am at Joe's Bar on 5th Ave. working hard".
Maybe your employees will not be able to give the location cues needed.
So, perhaps GPS, in the absence of "triangulation" is the best solution.
I would be very pleased to hear ho wyou progress - and am willing to maintain contact with you to let you know how I attempt to solve the same problem. (My problem does not have an "employee" or "administrator" but those *roles* do exist in similar way.)
Is it okay to exchange e-mail addresses? Or is that barred on here?
Kind regards
Pete
jawwad ahmed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 01, 2001
Posts: 179
Hi Pete;
Its good to see u.So finally i should conclude that on adminstrator side i can use MP.Net and on client side i can use the GPS to send signal.
Am I correct.....?Waiting for your reply.
Well My email Address Is jawwad_33@yahoo.com
Pete WesternHope
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 19
Hi Jawwad
If I were developing this solution I would consider:
Client side -
The platform would be a j2me enabled PDA.
It will need a GPS jacket to get location info.
Wireless connectivity to your web-server.
Of course, a GPS-capable cell-phone could be used.
Server side -
Client link:
Commercial server for hosting WAP site to be accessed from mobile equipments. Enable position information associated with each client to be recorded.
Admin link:
I would have a desktop PC app accessing the WAP site to read the client positions. These could then be locally passed to an installed locator product. Map Point is one example - but another possibility is to use the Map Point .Net web service to retrieve th einformation you need.
I think there is a lot more to it than this - for example -
What do you want to do when you know where your "employee" is? Do you want to send information to him/her?
How many employees will be tracked? How will you identify each user of the WAP site?
It sounds like a fun project!!
My e-mail is Pete@WesternHope.com
Have you any information on GPS enabled devices or the APIs yet?
Good luck to you!
Kind regards
Pete
jawwad ahmed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 01, 2001
Posts: 179
Well a company was trying to make project from me in which his employe go to sell his company shares/product ,the comapny director say to me that they what ever his employee has done transaction and what he is doing at any instance the admin should know every thing about it.After that they dont give the project.But i was thinking of my own that i do research in these type of thing and learn technologies and develop some project on in.
Well for developig on client side for PocketPC EmbeddedVb/VC would be better and for palmOS CodeWorior for c/c++ will be better.(The Company director says he has worked in IBM for 12 years).
But what i analye i make project in J2me and SuperWaba.J2me is best for mobile but very poor support for Palm i cant find reference implementation of PersonalJava Api.
And SuperWaba is 60% faster than Java And like native code but lack of Api that J2me Has and is not mature and have some bugs also.
Thanks for your sugesstion,when i will start this project i will contact u for help.
Bye
 
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