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Android anyone ?

Nicholas Jordan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Posts: 1282
The core Android API is implemented in Java, according to my beliefs ( which I got from a newspaper article ) I went to maybe download the Java Micro Development kit and was presented with a request for email information. That screen is still open, but I loathe using up email account #2 of my 100 email accounts.

Other work on prying out info on Android came up with a SmallTalk pitch page which gave a not-too-complex linguistic for what is a reasonably well touted API but I would like to leverage my existing codebase in Java as I already write the way I understand Micro needs things written: java.util.* and a limited window set and most of the base classes in java.lang

I intend to write a tabular data app for webular-celldevice that avoids being forced to expose one's machine to the dreaded port 25: thus targeting a business means business customer.

I still have work to do, but several large chunks of code brought to a clean compile over the last month or so could probaly run in 64k if java.net will be implemented by compiler tweakers for individual device vendors.

If somebody like google does a complete break with established practice in marketing, I could really get interested in Micro Development Kits that do not force one to put everything in a baloon.


"The differential equations that describe dynamic interactions of power generators are similar to that of the gravitational interplay among celestial bodies, which is chaotic in nature."
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 16012
    
  19

I've been looking over the basics. It's essentially designed as a way of connecting things together - there's about 5 essential entity types, including one that's essentially a daemon. A pretty radical shift from J2ME - less about programs and more about interacting components.

I don't recall any major privacy issues with getting Android, but as a matter of daily business I ended up having to have both Google and Yahoo accounts a long time ago, just as I have a Sun account. While I'm not real keen on keeping around a lot of public contact points, lest the fellows in Washington decide that I'm within 16 degrees of connection to an Enemy of Freedom and clandestinely invite me on a one-way midnight flight to a tropical island paradise, neither Google or Yahoo has ever publicly abused my account info. As for privately - well, I have AT&T....

In short, you might as well sign up and download the goodies. It looks like there's some potential. Be warned, however, I think it runs about 50MB before you're all done with it.


Customer surveys are for companies who didn't pay proper attention to begin with.
Roy Cinco
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 11, 2007
Posts: 21
The Android FAQ <http://code.google.com/android/kb/general.html> says:

What languages does Android support?

Android applications are written using the Java programming language.
Can I write code for Android using C/C++?

No. Android applications are written using the Java programming language.


Can J2ME people leverage their knowledge here? Or are they just talking regular Java? (I don't know J2ME or Android myself.)
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 16012
    
  19

I doubt that knowing J2ME is going to be a big advantage, though knowing any sort of GUI programming (mobile or not) isn't going to hurt. But the Android model appears to separate the GUI code from the rest of the application rather rigidly.

On the other hand, now that I think of it, I don't recall that Android requires the full desktop JRE, so knowing the limits of J2ME - and how to work within them - might be useful.

Incidentally, Android, like the PalmOS comes with a basic data store facility.
Nicholas Jordan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Posts: 1282
person by person :: point by point

[As setup, let me note that I spent the week acclimatizing by downloading an running the installer for two platforms that will have similar overall install issues]

[Tim Holloway:]   I've been looking over the basics. It's essentially designed as a way of connecting things together - there's about 5 essential entity types, including one that's essentially a daemon. A pretty radical shift from J2ME - less about programs and more about interacting components.

I went googling ( very briefly and early on ) and did not find much, may we have some sample links ? Apparently there is fixing to be a pardigm shift, I saw something this week on broadcast early morning televison that strikingly resembled Teletubbies � BBC/Ragdoll Limited 1996-2004 being able to do world-class networking without any reliance on the traditional provider-consumer paradigm. Given that this has been a home-ground for lock in and freedom was the unspoken pitch I heard in the Android pitch, it would be useful in my understanding of the platform to have the list of entity types and what base computer science concepts go with what entity type. By interacting components, would you intend the traditional explaination of the user being able to use the computer for what they bought the computer for ?

[Tim Holloway:]   I don't recall any major privacy issues with getting Android, but as a matter of daily business I ended up having to have both Google and Yahoo accounts a long time ago, just as I have a Sun account. While I'm not real keen on keeping around a lot of public contact points, lest the fellows in Washington decide that I'm within 16 degrees of connection to an Enemy of Freedom and clandestinely invite me on a one-way midnight flight to a tropical island paradise, neither Google or Yahoo has ever publicly abused my account info. As for privately - well, I have AT&T....

There are others in our discussion group who agree with not having an excesss of useable personal information carefully indexed by vast OC-1 farms (who use facsimilie transmission for identity verification and access-control issues). The idiots on the hill were selling private security services before all the bodies had hit the ground. I find your reservation reasonable, but what do you propose as our security approach when the only tools avaliable provide a certificate chain leading directly to our email inbox ? I have seen some military-grade security that asks that entire groups of persons provide fully cross-indexed data-stores without any enciperment, even teletubbies could do better. Have ever considered the absurdity of the phrase: "Your username and password will be sent by email" when you are on an https site ? port 25 is 'say swiss-cheese and smile.

[Tim Holloway:]   In short, you might as well sign up and download the goodies. It looks like there's some potential. Be warned, however, I think it runs about 50MB before you're all done with it.

I just deleted 250 + megabytes of stuff I was only tring out in practice for doing the Android download. If someones call was REALLY important to my company they would have to go through Team Lead, who is formally trained in heavy security operational environments.

[Roy Cinco:]   Can J2ME people leverage their knowledge here? Or are they just talking regular Java? (I don't know J2ME or Android myself.)

Most definitely yes, it is a very simple exercise in forgetting some of the abstracted use the big tools for everyting and just program like we used to.

Study Vector, String and a few fundamental basic classes of your choice. If you can understand those, you can be on my team in an informal and very simplified test of just ask questions and discuss the matter, exactly as we are doing here. The site says: Android applications are written using the Java programming language. then you ask us if we can program in the Java Language. This represents the type of challenge we will get from customers and must be accounted for in initial team selection. Most definitely, J2ME people leverage their knowledge here, just try to focus on the most simplified core you can dream up and start practicing writing apps, let us know what you come up with.

[Tim Holloway:]   I doubt that knowing J2ME is going to be a big advantage, though knowing any sort of GUI programming (mobile or not) isn't going to hurt. But the Android model appears to separate the GUI code from the rest of the application rather rigidly.

The classes will be a very limited set of JSuff, and we have to keep the gui stuff simple, clean and ( in my opinion ) focus on the functionality of what a proposed app will do.

I looked over the Java sources for another micro-edition programmed pda and found that the code was suprisingly well-developed and would appear bloated to people who are not acclimatized to writing for small screens. The developer documentation for the sdk I downloaded goes to detail in pointing the would be developer in this direction.

[Tim Holloway:]   On the other hand, now that I think of it, I don't recall that Android requires the full desktop JRE, so knowing the limits of J2ME - and how to work within them - might be useful.

What is a desktop JRE ?

[Tim Holloway:]   Incidentally, Android, like the PalmOS comes with a basic data store facility.

So you have some real-world experience developing for handheld devices ? Obviously so. Let me know what your transition experience is.
[ November 18, 2007: Message edited by: Nicholas Jordan ]
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 16012
    
  19

I should explain that my current signature is a response to companies who think they're saving money by replacing human beings with automated phone systems and has nothing to do with the topic at hand - it shows up at the tail of all my current postings. I'm a typical anti-social geek who generally prefers to interact with computers, but there are some things that computers are not good for, and when people forget that, they lose my business. Including a recent mortgage lender, who didn't lend to me because their competition still employed human beings.

The main problem people have with J2EE is when they try and design J2EE apps the same way as they would client-server apps. You'll find the same problem if you try an design an Android app like it was a J2ME app. Android apps are basically a set of modules that interrelate, and they can frequently interrelate with other modules in other apps and/or exernal interfaces. So the most fundamental difference is realizing that an Android app is not intended to be a monolithic construct.

And yes, I do have some experience with different platforms - PalmOS in C, Windows Mobile in C#, some J2ME. Not to mention various embedded systems. In truth, in a lot of ways, knowing another platform can be hazardous, since you may attempt to force a platform to operate in the wrong way and - if you're really unlucky, almost succeed. On the other hand, life is a learning experience.

One advantage with current phone platforms, however, is their interchange standards. Internally, Palm uses a fairly well-documented file format (PRC's, PDB's), Microsoft uses what is apparently some bastard version of MS-Access and true to type, dumps all the core system data in it a la the Windows Registry (while still keeping a registry as well (ack!) ). Nonetheless, when it comes to interchanging contact and calendar data, the external standards (vCard, vCal etc) are quite compatible. It's what allowed me to easily transfer my contact list from my antique non-telephone Handspring Visor to my shiny new HTC Windows Mobile device and what allows me to sync up the phone to the web-based Google Calendar.
Nicholas Jordan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Posts: 1282
I most definitely understand you point(s) ... I understand them so well that I read through the whole thing wondering if I would even find a point of disagreement / and factually did not but wish to comment. Your cited commercial enterprise is - at it's core - a publishing empire, not a software enterprise.

They have an eight-million dollar floating city with a water-level Saloon that would be a natch for Ian Flemmings latest flame-thrower. You can bet your brain-stem they will be watching this, so instead of attracting heat from someone who has an empire to protect and millions to do it with, let's make Roy Cinco our Lead Coder, I took the installer around to several machines using a Relay from Staples and it (Android) uses eclipse. Those plug and play coding screens drive me off the screen, and people like Roy is exactly what those things are supposed to be for. You and I can dig through the code it produces and see if ....

I mean it only uses Vector and a paltry subset of j2me -> Roy wanted to know if he could 'leverage his knowledge of java' .... I mean if the guy can code hello world ~ who else ? No one else has even posted in the thread, so by common-sense Roy Bean, Code Corral Cowboy !

That would be J.R. on Lorimar, no ?

I'll post in Meaningless Drivel so we can explore the Social Engineering of your reply.
[ November 20, 2007: Message edited by: Nicholas Jordan ]
Syam Sathyan George
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 26, 2006
Posts: 64
Heeeeeeey,

I was in a hurry after seeing this post, downloaded the Android SDK and tried it out.
At last there's an SDk that simulates a phone completely(to the GUI level atleast).
Couldnt try the J2me SDK, but saw many new packages other than lcdui.*
I read many articles claiming the SDK giving access to the Accelerometer in the phone. Eagerly waiting to see features like the location API,OpenGl ES etc.

-Syam.Sathyan.George
(Embedded Passion)


Syam.Sathyan.George
(My boss is a Jewish carpenter)
Nicholas Jordan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Posts: 1282
I propose an app for Android:

A tabular data application, thus ....

Bea Goodone, arriving at Major University to begin a course in General Studies needs a way to send budeting data back home:

ferrari: $250,000
textbooks: $250,000

Bea Goodone does not want to have to drive back home to load this information on famalial email, just send it from the gizmo.

The app should provide a way to transfer tabular data between Android written apps on two devices without using email.
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
subject: Android anyone ?