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"Developing Games in Java" / Gaming Forum

Barry Andrews
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 05, 2000
Posts: 523

I know there is no gaming forum at JavaRanch, but I think it would be cool to invite David Brackeen, author of Developing Games in Java, to one of the forums and maybe even create a gaming forum. The book has great reviews, and I for one would love to ask him some questions.

What do others think?
Eric Pascarello
author
Rancher

Joined: Nov 08, 2001
Posts: 15376
    
    6
If I remember correctly it was discussed before and the moderators were afraid that they would be moving too many posts to the other Java areas since the problems posted by most would be Java Problems and not game problems.

Eric
Barry Andrews
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 05, 2000
Posts: 523

But that's a problem in any forum. Posts are moved all the time. Java gaming seems like a big enough topic to justify having a forum. Even Sun has recently started promoting Java game development.

Anyway, I don't know the process for the whole book giveaway thing. Do authors just volunteer to come into a forum or are they asked by JavaRanch? If it's possible to get Mr. Brackeen to come, you could put him in the "Other Java API's" forum.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15300
    
    6

Indeed it has been discussed. here and here.

Note the links to the Java Gaming community on Java.net and their forums. They are actually quite good and I see no reason for Javaranch to try and mimic them.


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Barry Andrews
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 05, 2000
Posts: 523

And from the links to the other threads I see a few other folks who think it's a good idea. It's only the moderators who seem to not like this idea.

Yes, I know about the other forums. There are also other forums that have the same topics as JavaRanch, so mimicing a games forum is not a valid argument.

Perhaps why there are no game questions is because there is no games forum.

Other JavaRanch users feel free to chime in anytime.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15300
    
    6

As was said in the other threads, if you need a more valid argument, game programming covers such a broad range of topics. Math, GUI, Graphics, algorithms, etc. None of which are specific to gaming unless used in a game.

My point about the other forums on java.net is, if you want to discuss gaming, they have some perfectly good forums. Gaming is really language agnostic and broad.

Let me ask you this. What about gaming would you specifically want to discuss? Because I bet for every topic you think of, I can name a forum we already have that would work.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15300
    
    6

Let me add that while I don't think Javaranch needs a Gaming Forum, I'm not the deciding factor nor will I gripe and complain if one shows up. I just wouldn't want to have to moderate it.

I see a few other folks who think it's a good idea

Key word being few.

  • If a few members want a new forum and the staff does not, it probably doesn't happen.
  • If a few members want a forum and the staff thinks it's a good idea, it will happen.
  • If a lot of members want a new forum it will probably happen because if a lot of members want it, chances are good that staff members do too.


  • Barry Andrews
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Sep 05, 2000
    Posts: 523

    Then I will wait for others to chime in. If no one else cares about it, then of course I will not gripe.
    paul wheaton
    Trailboss

    Joined: Dec 14, 1998
    Posts: 20732
        ∞

    I think that while the algorithms for gaming are often used in all industries, I also think that gamers tend to blaze a trail where the rest of us typically do not tread. Animation, sprites and real time programming are all under represented here.

    I think it's worth giving it a try. Here are the first two ingredients we would need: 1) A current moderator willing to moderate. 2) Somebody willing to breathe new life into the forum (get people to participate, get a few dozen threads going so the forum isn't dead).


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    Gregg Bolinger
    GenRocket Founder
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jul 11, 2001
    Posts: 15300
        
        6

    Animation, sprites

    Wouldn't the Swing forum be perfectly appropriate for these topics? I know that recently there have been a lot of Animation questions going on and they are all getting good responses.

    If someone is asking an animation question, what if it doesn't have anything to do with a game? I think this has been the main concern all along is moving threads back and forth a lot more than usual because it's hard to tell where the question really goes.

    Swing or Gaming?
    JIG (Advanced) or Gaming?
    IO and Streams or Gaming?
    Programming Diversions or Gaming?
    Gregg Bolinger
    GenRocket Founder
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jul 11, 2001
    Posts: 15300
        
        6

    Thinking about this a little more and assuming we are going ahead with it I would like to make the following suggestion. It seems unrealistic to me that a single forum could cover Java gaming.

    So I propose a Java Gaming group with severl forums in the group

  • 2D/3D Graphics - This would cover animation, sprites, Graphics2D and any 3D libraries (JOGL, gl4java, LWJGL, etc)
  • Game Networking
  • Game Algorithms


  • My baby girl is screaming for a bottle or I would think of some more. But you get the idea.
    Jessica Sant
    Sheriff

    Joined: Oct 17, 2001
    Posts: 4313

    I understand Gergg's point that "games" can span several different topics, but then again, so does the Developer's exam -- RMI, Swing, Threads, etc. The reason for having a single location to talk about Games is so that people that are into games can have one location to discuss them and the issues that surround them.

    I think creating 3 games forums is way overboard.

    I'd defintiely be willing to moderate the new games forum. I took a neat AI class last year that got into some game theory. Hopefully I can use some of that to help kick start the forum (as long as Barry promises to help a bit ).


    - Jess
    Blog:KnitClimbJava | Twitter: jsant | Ravelry: wingedsheep
    Lasse Koskela
    author
    Sheriff

    Joined: Jan 23, 2002
    Posts: 11962
        
        5
    I'd also prefer a single gaming forum instead of multiple gaming forums.
    (although I have to say I have serious doubts about the new forum getting enough traffic to warrant its existence)


    Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
    Gregg Bolinger
    GenRocket Founder
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jul 11, 2001
    Posts: 15300
        
        6

    Well, here is my final word on the matter in case it matters.

    I don't think discussing Animation, Sprites, AI, Game Theory, Networking, etc in a single forum is a good idea.

    I think we are going to end up with a ton of unanswered questions. Not because we don't have smart people here but because there are going to be questions about API's like OpenGL, JOGL, LWGLJ, SDL, etc and there are perfectly good forums/mailing lists for those API's. I'm all for expanding our user base and providing forums that are needed, but the reason the Java.net gaming forums do well is because there are enough experts that hang out there in that field. And because the developers for JOGL, etc hang out in those forums. If we want to try and pull them over here fine, but I doubt they will move.

    I don't know why I am fighting this so much. I guess if questions go unanswered they go unanswered. I just think we have enough dead forums here why add another one when we have perfectly good forums where gaming questions can be asked already.

    And if it doesn't end up being dead and it's a huge success, then you all can say you told me so.
    Dirk Schreckmann
    Sheriff

    Joined: Dec 10, 2001
    Posts: 7023
    I don't know the process for the whole book giveaway thing. Do authors just volunteer to come into a forum or are they asked by JavaRanch?

    I coordinate our book promotions. Sometimes, the author or the publisher will contact me, requesting to schedule a book. Sometimes, I'll send a request to the publisher or the author, requesting to schedule a book.


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    Barry Andrews
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Sep 05, 2000
    Posts: 523

    Hopefully I can use some of that to help kick start the forum (as long as Barry promises to help a bit.


    You got it!
    paul wheaton
    Trailboss

    Joined: Dec 14, 1998
    Posts: 20732
        ∞

    Good points Gregg.

    While it might detract from current forums, it might also bring an audience here that otherwise might not stop by.

    Jessica, MAKE IT SO!
    Marilyn de Queiroz
    Sheriff

    Joined: Jul 22, 2000
    Posts: 9053
        
      12


    Go Jessica!


    There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.


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    "Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift; that's why they call it the present." Eleanor Roosevelt
    Lasse Koskela
    author
    Sheriff

    Joined: Jan 23, 2002
    Posts: 11962
        
        5
    Originally posted by Marilyn de Queiroz:
    Go Jessica!

    Now why aren't we selling JavaRanch-branded pom-pom's?
    Gregg Bolinger
    GenRocket Founder
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jul 11, 2001
    Posts: 15300
        
        6

    Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:
    Let me add that while I don't think Javaranch needs a Gaming Forum, I'm not the deciding factor nor will I gripe and complain if one shows up. I just wouldn't want to have to moderate it.

    I see a few other folks who think it's a good idea

    Key word being few.

  • If a few members want a new forum and the staff does not, it probably doesn't happen.
  • If a few members want a forum and the staff thinks it's a good idea, it will happen.
  • If a lot of members want a new forum it will probably happen because if a lot of members want it, chances are good that staff members do too.




  • If Paul wants a new forum, all other rules become null 'cause he's the boss.


  • Jessica Sant
    Sheriff

    Joined: Oct 17, 2001
    Posts: 4313

    its alive!
    http://www.coderanch.com/forums/f-81/Game-Development
    Gregg Bolinger
    GenRocket Founder
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jul 11, 2001
    Posts: 15300
        
        6

    Originally posted by Barry Andrews:


    You got it!


    Hey Barry. Where the heck are ya? Are you breaking your promise to Jess?
    Barry Andrews
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Sep 05, 2000
    Posts: 523

    Well I intended on reading my book first (which I just got last night) , before posting questions. I didn't expect the forum to get started so quickly. But one of your posts did spark a question in my mind, so I will go add something now.
    [ August 02, 2004: Message edited by: Barry Andrews ]
     
     
    subject: "Developing Games in Java" / Gaming Forum