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Is the SCJP 5.0 Beta out?

Sudharsan Govindarajan
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Joined: Jul 03, 2002
Posts: 319
Is the SCJP 5.0 Beta Exam out? I heard this is not free and it costs $50?

-Sudharsan


Joy is a radiation
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Yes, the beta starts from 13th Jan. It costs $49.


Groovy
Kailas Lovlekar
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Joined: Oct 25, 2004
Posts: 34
I got an email from Sun to take Beta 5.0. 5 hr test over 160 questions. Plus pay sun some 40$. They must be crazy!


SCJP/SCWCD/SCEA/OCA/Pega System Architect
Nobuhiro Watsuki
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Joined: May 07, 2004
Posts: 81
Yep, indeed.

I heard slavery was abandoned after the civil war. I guess Sun wasn't informed.


SCJP, SCMAD, SCWCD, SCBCD, CCIE (written), IBM 287<a href="http://hollandiahaven.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">.</a>
Nicholas Cheung
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 4982
I got an email from Sun to take Beta 5.0. 5 hr test over 160 questions. Plus pay sun some 40$. They must be crazy!

Why you think so? This is a very normal case indeed. I do feel that, in the past, SUN was really crazy.

In fact, every beta exam (e.g. Oracle, HP, Server+, Cisco, etc) requires exam fee, but with a great discount ($50 US already 66% off compared to the original exam fee) to compansate the number of required questions to be answered, the comments given, and the lack of studying materials. Like Oracle, I just took 1z1-043 at Dec 2004. It costs me USD $50, answering 216 questions but I only had 3 hours!!!

In addition, in the past, no matter you studied well or not, you would definitely take the beta exam just because it was free! This highly affected the passing score and quality of the questions because the accessors really dont know whether the candidates did not study well, or the questions were too hard, too ambigous, etc. The passing score of SCJP 1.4 might be a good example.

Now, if you have not prepared for the exam well, you definitely will not take the exam.

Nick
[ January 04, 2005: Message edited by: Nicholas Cheung ]

SCJP 1.2, OCP 9i DBA, SCWCD 1.3, SCJP 1.4 (SAI), SCJD 1.4, SCWCD 1.4 (Beta), ICED (IBM 287, IBM 484, IBM 486), SCMAD 1.0 (Beta), SCBCD 1.3, ICSD (IBM 288), ICDBA (IBM 700, IBM 701), SCDJWS, ICSD (IBM 348), OCP 10g DBA (Beta), SCJP 5.0 (Beta), SCJA 1.0 (Beta), MCP(70-270), SCBCD 5.0 (Beta), SCJP 6.0, SCEA for JEE5 (in progress)
Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8829
    
    5
While I basically agree with Nicholas, I'd like to hear more from Kailas and Nobuhiro. We're working to make the whole certification process as good as possible, and feedback is always welcome.


Spot false dilemmas now, ask me how!
(If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
ankur rathi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 3830
Can I give this Beta Exam ( As I don't have SCJP cirtificate & I am in India ) ?

It has same value as SCJP ?

thanks .
Kailas Lovlekar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 25, 2004
Posts: 34
Bert, I can see the point Nicholas made about exam quality, passing scores etc. But he is probably not married yet!
I agree that I wouldn�t study much if exam is free. But what�s the motivation for me to do beta 5.0 after doing SCJP 1.4.

Plus if you scored 90% in 1.4, you already proved some standard with java basics. So even if the exam is free, you can still expect decent competency level from a certified person.
Joyce Lee
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Joined: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 1392
SCJP 5.0 beta exam details and objectives
Nobuhiro Watsuki
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 07, 2004
Posts: 81
I'd say the primary reason of beta testing is the test of the test itself and not the piece of paper with the word "pass" on it. I would be prepared to sacrifice my time and effort for free but not if I have to pay for it too!

It is my feeling sun is forgetting the reason they started these certifications, which is to enlarge the community of knowledgeable java developers, and is using them as a cash cow.
Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8829
    
    5
Ah...

Certainly I'd agree that if you have your 1.4 cert there may be no compelling reason to update to tiger. As far as the "cash cow" is concerned, the prometric centers will basically take all of the beta money for themselves... Sun used to take a loss on the beta, now they will just break even.

- Bert
Nobuhiro Watsuki
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 07, 2004
Posts: 81
I see, the tester will have to pay prometric then. :roll:
Nicholas Cheung
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 4982
It is not that easy for being a cash cow via beta exams not only because Prometric will get all the exam fees, but also the number of candidates who take part in the beta event.

Nick
Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8829
    
    5
Nobuhiro -


I see, the tester will have to pay prometric then.


I guess I'm not clear what you'd recommend... who should pay the rent for the testing centers?
Sal DiStefano
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Joined: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 90
Everyone wants something for nothing. As Bert said, the testing centers have overhead. SUN is not making anything off this beta effort.

I do think the cost of any exam helps weed out the people who should not be taking it.

In the case of a beta exam they are looking to trim the questions on the test. They need/want the people taking it to be of a certain level so the curve can be adjusted properly. If they give it away for free they may have an unusual amount of people who are not really qualified to take the exam, sit for it. This would cause the curve to be adjusted improperly.

I have taken many Microsoft Beta exams, even passed a few. At one time they were open to everyone, now they are only open to people who already hold certification and you need to be invited. This I believe helps them tune the test, so they know the basic level of knowledge sitting for the exam.

Just my 2 cents.

Sal

P.S. I have more Google GMail invites. If you would like one, let me know. Please do not post your request here, email me.
[ January 04, 2005: Message edited by: Sal DiStefano ]
Nicholas Cheung
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Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 4982

I guess I'm not clear what you'd recommend... who should pay the rent for the testing centers?

I believe, for the regular exam fee USD 150, part of it will go to the testing center's pocket, because they wont provide services without any profit (might not necessary to be profit, but at least this should cover the cost).

Nick
Sudharsan Govindarajan
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Joined: Jul 03, 2002
Posts: 319
What do u folks in India think? Is INR 2500 worth for a Beta exam ?
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Bert,

I feel that $49 is too high for people residing in certain countries.
Nicholas Cheung
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Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 4982
But that's the norm price for beta exams offered by other vendors. I guess SUN just take this. In addition, SUN provides USD $1 discount, while compared to others, which need USD $50.

Nick
Nicholas Cheung
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 4982
What do u folks in India think? Is INR 2500 worth for a Beta exam ?

In such sense, if USD $49 is not worth for a beta exam, then how about USD $150 for a live exam?

Nick
Sudharsan Govindarajan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2002
Posts: 319
I was worried about the word 'Beta' in my resume. If you write a beta, will it be considered equivalent to a standard exam? (I mean, by the prospective employers )
Nicholas Cheung
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 4982
I was worried about the word 'Beta' in my resume. If you write a beta, will it be considered equivalent to a standard exam? (I mean, by the prospective employers )

No one knows you take beta, because even you worked for 166 questions in 5 hours, the score report you received (after 2 months) will just show you the number of questions that as in the real test, and there will be no information in the cert. that you are taking beta exam.

Nick
ankur rathi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 3830
It means there is no point of asking SCJP 1.4 cirtificate is better or beta ...

beta will give SCJP 1.5 cirtificate ... am I right ? It any ways better than SCJP 1.4 cirtificate ....

thanks .
ankur rathi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 3830
We can consider beta as SCJP 1.5 is coming with a special offer .
Get discount of 100$ & this offer is valid till 15 Feb .

Right ...
Anand Ko
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Joined: Dec 03, 2003
Posts: 79
I don't know which is better (1.4 or 1.5).
But i work with my client on 1.3


Anand<br />SCJP 1.4, SCWCD 1.4, SCEA 5.0(1/3)
Nobuhiro Watsuki
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Joined: May 07, 2004
Posts: 81
Bert:
I guess I'm not clear what you'd recommend... who should pay the rent for the testing centers?


Sun! It's their product that's being tested.

I notice most people don't see the beta as a test of the test, just an opportunity to get a certificate. Maybe it shouldn't be called a beta then. Just a premature rollout of a (possibly flawed) discounted test.
Dave Wood
bronco
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Joined: Aug 02, 2004
Posts: 161
Originally posted by Nobuhiro Watsuki:
Bert:


Sun! It's their product that's being tested.

I notice most people don't see the beta as a test of the test, just an opportunity to get a certificate. Maybe it shouldn't be called a beta then. Just a premature rollout of a (possibly flawed) discounted test.

But isn't this really the point? It's a mutually beneficial thing. If you didn't get certified by taking it, I could absolutely see the argument against paying the $49 for it. But since you do, I can't see looking at this as anything other than a $100 discount being offered by Sun.


Co-Author of <a href="http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/jswing2" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Java Swing</a><br />Co-Creator of <a href="http://www.sun.com/training/catalog/courses/CX-310-055.xml" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">SCJP 5.0</a> and <a href="http://www.sun.com/training/certification/java/associate_beta.xml" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">SCJA</a> exams
Nicholas Cheung
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Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 4982

Sun! It's their product that's being tested.

So, how about if only SUN employees are eligible to take the beta as free, and no other parties can be involved, and then SUN lives this exam to the public?

I guess there is no point on whether the product is being tested, because, like some other exams even do not provide beta exams, which means that they even do not test want to test the product "publicly".


I notice most people don't see the beta as a test of the test, just an opportunity to get a certificate. Maybe it shouldn't be called a beta then. Just a premature rollout of a (possibly flawed) discounted test. [/QB]

Personally, I prefer having a discounted exam, instead of having a non-discounted exam.

Nick
Sudharsan Govindarajan
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Joined: Jul 03, 2002
Posts: 319
If the certificate is not going to contain the word 'beta', then its cool.
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

When are you guys taking the exam?
 
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subject: Is the SCJP 5.0 Beta out?