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SCJP recognition...

Chris Miles
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 02, 2005
Posts: 13
After numerous job interviews it has dawned on me that industry just
doesnt hold a high regard for academic qualifications (without experience)
Yeah it may show that I am commited to studying but the actual qualifications
themself dont seem to mean squat except another stepping stone up the great
ladder. So i have took it upon myself to get my Java certification in a bid
to have something industry recognised as my friend could not get a job
for over a year with his masters degree until he gained his MCP/MSCE and
he then got a jon straight away.

What sort of recognition to the qualifications have in industry (particulary
in the UK if anyone has any experience of it)

Im just getting ready for the Java 2 1.4 exam (CX-310-035)

many thanks

Chris, Glasgow
Marcus Green
arch rival
Rancher

Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
What you say has some truth, but it is very hard to get some practical experience without some academic qualifications. Most/many software technical jobs expect a first degree. Many employers do seem to value study for the sake of study in that it ensures you are capable of applying yourself and completing tasks. Few employers explicitly ask for the Sun Certified Java Programmers Exam, but it acts as another tick on the resume box. If an employer has to choose between two approximatly equal candidates, the one who has passed the SCJP may have an edge. The employer is very unlikely to know much about the details of the exam. They tend to take the veiw that you have shown committment and that committment has been endorsed by a multi billion dollar corporation.
[ August 02, 2005: Message edited by: Marcus Green ]

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Chris Miles
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 02, 2005
Posts: 13
Hi thanks for the response... I do have academic qualifications but im
finding it hard to find a job (just finishing my masters just now)
Pavan Tummala
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 25, 2004
Posts: 74
Certifications do provide you with an edge but only to some extent. I would say dont put too much time for certifications. No one cares abt the scores.


If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution -- Robert Sewell
Marcus Green
arch rival
Rancher

Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
I agree that you should not worry too much about your score, but certifications can help. If you have no prior commercial experience, what else can you use?
Paul Bourdeaux
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 783
Certifications are starting to make more of an impact in entry level jobs. It will help you get your foot in the door, although the interview is where you will get the job. Take my situation for example...

I am actually in my second job search since graduating from college in 2004 because my wife received a job offer in another city. During my first job search, I got some calls and interviews, and I did get a job, but I sent out many, many more resumes than I received calls.

Now, only about 15 months later, I am job searching again, this time, however, with my SCJP and SCJD. I have been averaging 3 or 4 calls a day from tech recruiters since posting my resume for the past week and a half. I haven't even had to send out resumes yet. When I asked why they selected my resume, many of them cited the SCJP as the minimum certification their client wanted for candidates.

While I do have more experience now than the first time I searched, 15 months is still considered entry level in our field. So, at least IMHO, I think the certifications have definitely helped in at least this first step of the search process.


“Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.” - Rich Cook
JigaR Parekh
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 23, 2005
Posts: 112
thx, for discussion i really got some hint out of this.
But let me tell you my case that i have completed my masters in 2002 and i got job in good company. Up to now i was trying to prove my self and learn new technology according to requirement. but now i am at good level in company at position as well as technically.

Now i have started preparation for SCJP 1.4 and SCEA and i am trying too hard to pass exam with good score.so really industry recongize percentage or they just they require that you have to clear these exam ?

thx,
Jigar
Santana Iyer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 13, 2005
Posts: 335
Hi,

I completed Bachelors in computer engineering in Mumbai, India.
Now I am preparing for SCJP1.4.

From above discussion I think it will help me or atleast give me an edge in JOB hunting.

But someone wrote that get certfication dont press to hard for marks,
till now I am pressing hard. So please tell me what to do as someone also said that employer gernerally do not know much about content of scjp.

So how much value scjp1.4 add, and imp. does mark matter or not.
Paul Bourdeaux
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 783
so really industry recongize percentage or they just they require that you have to clear these exam ?

I don�t believe that the actual score you get on a certification makes as much of an impact as having the certification itself. Think of it like a GPA in college. Getting your degree with a high GPA is great, but the degree itself it the important thing.

But someone wrote that get certfication dont press to hard for marks, till now I am pressing hard.

I disagree. You should always try hard for high marks, if for nothing else than the intrinsic reward of knowing you did a good job. Personally I am not the type of person who just wants to do enough to get by...

someone also said that employer gernerally do not know much about content of scjp

Depends on the employer. In many companies, it is not uncommon for the managers to specialize in something other than java. Perhaps when they started with the company, they specialized in a different technology (like C++), and are now high enough in the chain of command that they deal more with the architecture and deployment over the actual development. In this case they may know about the Sun Certifications, but don�t necessarily know much about the content. As Marcus said in an earlier post, they are putting faith in the endorsement that Sun gives you by declaring you �certified.�
[ August 05, 2005: Message edited by: Paul Bourdeaux ]
Joe Sondow
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 10, 2005
Posts: 195
Your score matters as much as you make it matter. If you get a very high score, there's no harm in giving a prospective employer a photocopy of your score report so they have one more small piece of information about your abilities. Likewise, if you had exceptional grades in school relating to the job's duties, there's no harm in giving a prospective employer a copy of your school transcript. On the other hand, if you think your score and/or grades are unremarkable, there's no reason why you should show them to anyone.


SCJA 1.0 (98%), SCJP 1.4 (98%)
Paul Bourdeaux
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 783
If you get a very high score, there's no harm in giving a prospective employer a photocopy of your score report so they have one more small piece of information about your abilities.

I wouldn't include a photo copy of a score report... Every time I have been on a search committee, I found it annoying when a candidate would include transcripts and certification sheets without being asked. Instead, if you want to ensure your potential employers know of your score, I would include it on your resume or curriculum vita.
 
It is sorta covered in the JavaRanch Style Guide.
 
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