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What happend with Book promotions

Kishore Dandu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
. People complaining a lot about not receiving the books.
. Past winners page not updated for alomost 3 months.
. A promotion supposed to have been reserved did not even start(for may10)
. Winners for a week not announced untill well into the next week.


Kishore
SCJP, blog
Nicholas Cheung
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 4982
Dirk, in fact, is quite busy on his work, and thus, be patient for that. _

Nick


SCJP 1.2, OCP 9i DBA, SCWCD 1.3, SCJP 1.4 (SAI), SCJD 1.4, SCWCD 1.4 (Beta), ICED (IBM 287, IBM 484, IBM 486), SCMAD 1.0 (Beta), SCBCD 1.3, ICSD (IBM 288), ICDBA (IBM 700, IBM 701), SCDJWS, ICSD (IBM 348), OCP 10g DBA (Beta), SCJP 5.0 (Beta), SCJA 1.0 (Beta), MCP(70-270), SCBCD 5.0 (Beta), SCJP 6.0, SCEA for JEE5 (in progress)
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Originally posted by Nicholas Cheung:
Dirk, in fact, is quite busy on his work, and thus, be patient for that. _

Nick


who is not busy with work. i will take that dirk has more priority for other aspects, may be i am wrong.
Balaji Loganathan
author and deputy
Bartender

Joined: Jul 13, 2001
Posts: 3150
Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
. People complaining a lot about not receiving the books.
. Past winners page not updated for alomost 3 months.
. A promotion supposed to have been reserved did not even start(for may10)
. Winners for a week not announced untill well into the next week.


Kishore!.. Please understand that we(Javaranch staffs) are volunteers here. We all come here because its fun.
Yes we do have other priorities like family, searching for jobs, keeping up the present job, health, day to day project tasks and so on.

Looking at your above posts, it seems like you are more worried about book promotions stuff than helping greenhorns for their techinical questions.

Anyway, we will try to do our best.
Thanks for your understanding.
Regards
Balaji
[ May 13, 2005: Message edited by: Balaji Loganathan ]

Spritle Software Blogs
Kishore Dandu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
Originally posted by Balaji Loganathan:


Looking at your above posts, it seems like you are more worried about book promotions stuff than helping greenhorns for their techinical questions.

[ May 13, 2005: Message edited by: Balaji Loganathan ]


I would like to take your comment out of a rush to answer. It can also be taken as insulting, but I am not going that route. It is the nature of we Indians to take these kind of mean conclusions, I guess.

BTW if you are so enthusiastic; why don't you takeup the book-promotions responsibility aswell(unless you are searching for a job)
Max Habibi
town drunk
( and author)
Sheriff

Joined: Jun 27, 2002
Posts: 4118
Kishore,

Let me be more blunt: if you're not comfortable here, you may find that you're comfortable elsewhere. Otherwise please
  • be patient
  • be aware that you're a guest here
  • don't make us regret offering free books


  • Java Regular Expressions
    Kishore Dandu
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jul 10, 2001
    Posts: 1934
    Originally posted by Max Habibi:
    Kishore,

    Let me be more blunt: if you're not comfortable here, you may find that you're comfortable elsewhere. Otherwise please
  • be patient
  • be aware that you're a guest here
  • don't make us regret offering free books


  • Patient, sure I can be. I loose my patience when I see posts like the one from Balaji, which are beyond the nice principles of Java ranchers.

    I hope others on the forum are not feeling like they are the hosts.

    Personally, the way book promotions are going; I would vote for getting rid of them all together.
    Balaji Loganathan
    author and deputy
    Bartender

    Joined: Jul 13, 2001
    Posts: 3150
    Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
    I would like to take your comment out of a rush to answer. It can also be taken as insulting, but I am not going that route. It is the nature of we Indians to take these kind of mean conclusions, I guess.


    I am not going down with Nationality stuff here. Just have a look at your recent posts and you will know what i mean.I would have not recruited as Moderator for this site if i happen to post like that.

    Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:

    BTW if you are so enthusiastic; why don't you takeup the book-promotions responsibility aswell(unless you are searching for a job)

    No Thanks, I dont need your advice or suggestions at this moment and I do mind my business.

    I repeat what Max said plus "we will try to do our best".[/font>
    Kishore Dandu
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jul 10, 2001
    Posts: 1934
    Originally posted by Balaji Loganathan:

    No Thanks, I dont need your advice or suggestions at this moment and I do mind my business.

    I repeat what Max said plus "we will try to do our best".[/font>


    If you look at recent posts from folks like 'Thomas Paul', you may get same perception as you got about me. But he means a lot to Java ranch.

    Don't freaking ever get your perceptions based on 'recent posts'. Its like deciding how bad 'Al Pacino' is based on his recent movies, where as he is real good in lot of previous ones
    Max Habibi
    town drunk
    ( and author)
    Sheriff

    Joined: Jun 27, 2002
    Posts: 4118
    Personally, the way book promotions are going; I would vote for getting rid of them all together.

    Kishore, I'm sure we'll give your opinion all the consideration it deserves. OTOH, we could just choose to ban certain people from book promotions.

    M
    [ May 13, 2005: Message edited by: Max Habibi ]
    Balaji Loganathan
    author and deputy
    Bartender

    Joined: Jul 13, 2001
    Posts: 3150
    Originally posted by Max Habibi:
    we could just choose to ban certain people from book promotions.
    [/QB]

    I vote for that.
    Kishore Dandu
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jul 10, 2001
    Posts: 1934
    Originally posted by Max Habibi:
    [qb]Personally, the way book promotions are going; I would vote for getting rid of them all together.

    Kishore, I'm sure we'll give your opinion all the consideration it deserves. OTOH, we could just choose to ban certain people from book promotions.

    M

    [ May 13, 2005: Message edited by: Max Habibi ][/QB]


    Man you can be as harsh as example 'living in a desert'.
    Kishore Dandu
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jul 10, 2001
    Posts: 1934
    Originally posted by Balaji Loganathan:

    I vote for that.


    I would not consider your opinions as genuine and whole-hearted. I just had a beer, so I had to express my venom.
    Nicholas Cheung
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Nov 07, 2003
    Posts: 4982
    I would say, both the moderators and ranchers have no obligation for any events, as stated at the book promotion.

    I believe the moderators have already tried their best to help the ranchers, not only by offering book promotions, but also answering questions, giving suggestions, etc.

    As Max said, if you feel this makes you uncomfortable, it is better to find another place that make you comfort. Otherwise, just accept this as is. If you are one of the moderators for holding such responsibility, you will understand.

    Or you can create another site, and hold the book promotions, would you consider this? I will be happy to join your new site.

    Nick
    Kishore Dandu
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jul 10, 2001
    Posts: 1934
    Originally posted by Nicholas Cheung:
    I would say, both the moderators and ranchers have no obligation for any events, as stated at the book promotion.

    I believe the moderators have already tried their best to help the ranchers, not only by offering book promotions, but also answering questions, giving suggestions, etc.

    As Max said, if you feel this makes you uncomfortable, it is better to find another place that make you comfort. Otherwise, just accept this as is. If you are one of the moderators for holding such responsibility, you will understand.

    Or you can create another site, and hold the book promotions, would you consider this? I will be happy to join your new site.

    Nick


    Your comments may sure impress somebody and you may aswell become a moderator for example. But they are not impressive for me.
    saikrishna cinux
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Apr 16, 2005
    Posts: 689
    hi kishore,

    don't worry Mr kishore javaranch is the best place for anything reg... java
    they will surely send u the book...
    As u told reg. our indian mentality... its perfectly wrong...
    there r other people from other countries. also....
    dont worry the same case has happened with my friend also ... but any how he has satisfied afterwards...
    i think u'll surely satisfy one or the other day...

    regards
    cinux


    A = HARDWORK B = LUCK/FATE If C=(A+B) then C=SUCCESSFUL IN LIFE else C=FAILURE IN LIFE
    SCJP 1.4
    Shailesh Chandra
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Aug 13, 2004
    Posts: 1081

    Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:

    Your comments may sure impress somebody


    agreed...that comments are expressed in better way. I am really depress to see this thread.

    The way this thread has turned up into individual expression of feeling.

    First time I have found moderators very strict on a rancher,and this doesn't make this place friendly.

    A rancher being aggressive can be expected but a moderator I don't think so

    There is something in this thread I don't have word for, but is not comfortable.

    We know that we are guest here, but top of that we have own willingness and feeling (that we are part of this) with Javaranch, which pull us to the forum

    Shailesh


    Gravitation cannot be held responsible for people falling in love ~ Albert Einstein
    Angela Poynton
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Mar 02, 2000
    Posts: 3143
    Kishore as has been previously stated. All Sheriffs and Bartenders are volunteers. We all put a fraction of the little spare time have into this site in an effort to make it as good as it can be. Do also bear in mind, none of the staff here are paid for their efforts.

    I'm sure you appreciate that. But I'd like you to appreciate this as well...

    Dirk puts in way more effort than I ever have, and I know for a fact he has lot more "other" things on his plate than I ever have. If a week or two goes by without a Book Promotion being advertised, it's because one hasn't been arranged. This could be because there weren't any authors who were willing to participate in those weeks. This isn't anybody's fault, it's just how it is.
    If a book doesn't find it's way to an announced winner it is because either
    The Winner hasn't contacted Dirk with their address details so he doesn't know where to tell the publisher to send the book
    or
    The publisher hasn't sent the book. In this case all we can do is remind them about it, publishers are generally pretty good about these things because they don't want to get a bad rep... sometimes things go wrong .. that's life.
    or
    The book has genuinely got "lost in the mail", what can we say, again, it happens.

    By criticising Dirk personally you are in effect critcising all of the Javaranch staff. Please refrain from your personal attacks. If you have a problem with a particular member of staff please feel free to send a Private Message to Paul Wheaton who is the ultimate boss.


    Pounding at a thick stone wall won't move it, sometimes, you need to step back to see the way around.
    paul wheaton
    Trailboss

    Joined: Dec 14, 1998
    Posts: 20493
        ∞

    Kishore,

    Let us speak for a moment about you and me. Nobody else. Just the two of us.

    First me. I own this site. Mine all mine. I can do whatever I like. I can give books away if I like. I can turn the whole site off if I like. I can ban people if I like. I can even change the rules on anything, willy nilly. I don't even need a reason. I can cheat. I can change my mind. I can give books to my friends. I can keep books. I can keep books from people I don't like. Most importantly, I'm a lazy bastard and I can choose to do nothing at all because I have other things to do.

    Now let's talk about you. You don't own this site.

    Now let's talk about Dirk. He's has done me this huuuuuuge favor of facilitating these book giveaways. I used to do it and I know it is a huge task to do week after week with people constantly bitching about how their personal greed has not been satiated. And the pay is zero. Nothing. About one author in five will say "thanks!" and about one winner in four will say "thanks!" - but that's it. When I did it, I figured it took about 20 hours per week. One "thanks" a week is not much for so much work and ugly messages. But it seemed really cool and, well, I liked doing it.

    So when you say things other than "thanks!" or "Dirk is cool!" or "I love the weekly giveaway!" it makes me think "How can I, the owner of this site, make things smoother for Dirk, to whom I am soooooo grateful?" ..... And look at that mention of banning somebody from future giveaways .....

    So, now I'm curious ..... will your next post be full of apology and kind words for Dirk? Or will you test my patience?


    permaculture Wood Burning Stoves 2.0 - 4-DVD set
    Kishore Dandu
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jul 10, 2001
    Posts: 1934
    Originally posted by Paul Wheaton:
    Kishore,

    Let us speak for a moment about you and me. Nobody else. Just the two of us.

    First me. I own this site. Mine all mine. I can do whatever I like. I can give books away if I like. I can turn the whole site off if I like. I can ban people if I like. I can even change the rules on anything, willy nilly. I don't even need a reason. I can cheat. I can change my mind. I can give books to my friends. I can keep books. I can keep books from people I don't like. Most importantly, I'm a lazy bastard and I can choose to do nothing at all because I have other things to do.

    Now let's talk about you. You don't own this site.

    Now let's talk about Dirk. He's has done me this huuuuuuge favor of facilitating these book giveaways. I used to do it and I know it is a huge task to do week after week with people constantly bitching about how their personal greed has not been satiated. And the pay is zero. Nothing. About one author in five will say "thanks!" and about one winner in four will say "thanks!" - but that's it. When I did it, I figured it took about 20 hours per week. One "thanks" a week is not much for so much work and ugly messages. But it seemed really cool and, well, I liked doing it.

    So when you say things other than "thanks!" or "Dirk is cool!" or "I love the weekly giveaway!" it makes me think "How can I, the owner of this site, make things smoother for Dirk, to whom I am soooooo grateful?" ..... And look at that mention of banning somebody from future giveaways .....

    So, now I'm curious ..... will your next post be full of apology and kind words for Dirk? Or will you test my patience?



    I know you are the boss(and equivalent to pope etc) for this site. I sure do not understand why I need to apologize to Dirk, when all I tried to do is express opinion or reality of book promotions. I do not have any personal negative thinking about Dirk.

    BTW personally I feel it should not take something like 20 hours to do the book promotion stuff, run the lottery and post a winner post on the specific forum. But that is my personal opinion. No one else need to or take that as granted. They can sure criticize and bisect my opinion. I am open for that(actually Meaningless drivel is a better forum for that).

    If you insist, I will thank 100 times to you and Dirk. If you want me to do that over the phone I can do that too(since I get all those free wireless minutes from my employer).
    Ernest Friedman-Hill
    author and iconoclast
    Marshal

    Joined: Jul 08, 2003
    Posts: 24183
        
      34

    Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:

    BTW personally I feel it should not take something like 20 hours to do the book promotion stuff, run the lottery and post a winner post on the specific forum.


    And schedule authors, help them decide on a forum, and update the web page that shows the schedule. And contact authors when they don't show up the first day. And thank the authors. And collect addresses from winners. And send them to the publishers. And remind the publishers when they don't send the books right away. And remind the winners when they don't send their addresses, or send an email address or a P.O.Box or something else worthless. And contact the publishers and find out if they sent the books. And contact publishers and keep track of what books are coming out, when, and who the authors are and what their contact info it. And probably even more things I can't think of because I've never done it.


    [Jess in Action][AskingGoodQuestions]
    Marilyn de Queiroz
    Sheriff

    Joined: Jul 22, 2000
    Posts: 9044
        
      10
    Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
    BTW personally I feel it should not take something like 20 hours to do the book promotion stuff ...


    And email the announcement about the upcoming book giveaway. And welcome the author. And check on them if they don't show up. And pick a group of potential winners. And find and read their posts to see if they have any substance (That might mean reading almost all posts that were posted during that period of time in that forum.).

    . People complaining a lot about not receiving the books.

    Dirk, or anyone else at JavaRanch, does not control the publishers. If someone receives a book, I think they should say thank you. If not, oh well (see Angela's post). Dirk doesn't have a pile of books at his house that he can just mail to the winners each week.

    . A promotion supposed to have been reserved did not even start(for May 10)

    Why would it start if it wasn't scheduled? To me, "reserved" means that we might or might not have a book giveaway that week.
    [ May 14, 2005: Message edited by: Marilyn de Queiroz ]

    JavaBeginnersFaq
    "Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift; that's why they call it the present." Eleanor Roosevelt
    Marilyn de Queiroz
    Sheriff

    Joined: Jul 22, 2000
    Posts: 9044
        
      10
    Originally posted by Shailesh Chandra:
    There is something in this thread I don't have word for, but is not comfortable.


    I agree that this thread is not comfortable. But Kishore indicates that he sees what he believes is a problem. It sounds like he is saying that the problem exists because Dirk either doesn't care or is lazy.

    I think that Balaji and Max and others are trying to say that Dirk does care and is not lazy.

    Also, I think that free books are not the main reason for JavaRanch to exist. Helping beginners learn Java in a friendly atmosphere is the main purpose of JavaRanch.

    I think that constant complaining in public about not receiving a gift is not adding to the friendly atmosphere.
    Nicholas Cheung
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Nov 07, 2003
    Posts: 4982

    BTW personally I feel it should not take something like 20 hours to do the book promotion stuff, run the lottery and post a winner post on the specific forum.

    If you think it is so easy, as said before, why don't you have a try to create a website to do this book promotion by yourself?

    In such case, you will know how much things you need to do, how much time you have to spend, and how hard for this task.

    You are now keep saying that this is easy, but you never did this.

    Nick
    Ilja Preuss
    author
    Sheriff

    Joined: Jul 11, 2001
    Posts: 14112
    Kishore, I think you have brought to attention an important fact: book promotions aren't currently working as smoothly as they did in the past. I don't think this is really anyones fault, it's just that some things have changed, such as who can invest how much time into it, for example. And now we need to find out how to adapt.

    So, although I agree that book promotions are not the heart of the Ranch, and although we are all volunteering here, it's something that is in need of improvement. You may rest assured that we are working on it. The best you can do to help us is to show a little bit appreciation and patience. Thanks!


    The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
    Kishore Dandu
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jul 10, 2001
    Posts: 1934
    Originally posted by Marilyn de Queiroz:


    I think that Balaji and Max and others are trying to say that Dirk does care and is not lazy.



    The way Balaji and Max did it is sort of awkward(you may say the same about my posts aswell) compared to how Ilja posted. I feel they crosses the line with respect to principles of 'nice' that is defined in the javaranch principles.
    Kishore Dandu
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jul 10, 2001
    Posts: 1934
    Originally posted by Ilja Preuss:
    Kishore, I think you have brought to attention an important fact: book promotions aren't currently working as smoothly as they did in the past. I don't think this is really anyones fault, it's just that some things have changed, such as who can invest how much time into it, for example. And now we need to find out how to adapt.

    So, although I agree that book promotions are not the heart of the Ranch, and although we are all volunteering here, it's something that is in need of improvement. You may rest assured that we are working on it. The best you can do to help us is to show a little bit appreciation and patience. Thanks!


    Thanks Ilja. This is the sort of answer I would expect from a moderator of the ranch. I am not blaming the other moderators responses, but I would like them to see the present situation and retrospect their responses to me.
    Ilja Preuss
    author
    Sheriff

    Joined: Jul 11, 2001
    Posts: 14112
    Originally posted by Marilyn de Queiroz:
    I agree that this thread is not comfortable.


    I agree.

    Perhaps it would help us all to keep in mind that written communication is a very delicate thing, and misunderstandings are occuring easily. If we just assume that everyone tries to be nice, and everything else must be some communication problem, perhaps there can still emerge something productive from this...

    For example:


    But Kishore indicates that he sees what he believes is a problem. It sounds like he is saying that the problem exists because Dirk either doesn't care or is lazy.


    I agree that it can easily be read that way. But it can also be read as him just neutrally stating what he perceives to be facts, without any valuation. I will prefer the latter interpretation, until proven false.

    I think that constant complaining in public about not receiving a gift is not adding to the friendly atmosphere.


    With all due respect, I think that publicly accusing someone for only participating on the Ranch for the books isn't either.

    But we are all humans. We do have feelings and sometimes express them in ways that others will find to be inappropriate. The way we can do a difference is to not let it deteriorate into a flame war, but to guide it back into a respectful and friendly discussion.
    Shailesh Chandra
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Aug 13, 2004
    Posts: 1081

    Originally posted by Marilyn de Queiroz:

    I agree that this thread is not comfortable.


    I had travelled the journey from 3rd Post to 11th Post, and believe me every stop was more hot.

    below is the part of one thread and that is the appearance of javaranch everywhere.

    Originally posted by a greenhorn in JDBC Forum:

    I hate having to go elsewhere... Non-rancher's are scary


    That is why after reading every post I was not comfortable.

    Now there are many post working as cold air, I hope thread would end in a happy mode

    Shailesh
    Jeanne Boyarsky
    internet detective
    Marshal

    Joined: May 26, 2003
    Posts: 30076
        
    149

    Shailesh,
    Thanks for that quote. It's a good reminder of what the Ranch is all about!


    [Blog] [JavaRanch FAQ] [How To Ask Questions The Smart Way] [Book Promos]
    Blogging on Certs: SCEA Part 1, Part 2 & 3, Core Spring 3, OCAJP, OCPJP beta, TOGAF part 1 and part 2
    Ilja Preuss
    author
    Sheriff

    Joined: Jul 11, 2001
    Posts: 14112
    Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
    I am not blaming the other moderators responses, but I would like them to see the present situation and retrospect their responses to me.


    That's good advice I always try to act on when I don't get the responses I expected - retrospecting on what I could have done to better communicate my good intents, and to allow interlocutors to feel respected and not forced to defend themselfs. It's sometimes hard work, and I certainly fail at it from time to time - but it has the advantage of being under my control (in contrast to the behaviour of others, which I just could blame, which probably wouldn't improve anything).
    Thomas Paul
    mister krabs
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: May 05, 2000
    Posts: 13974
    OK, boys and girls... enough bashing Dirk. He has done the best that he can (and did damn well) but I think he has been overwhelmed with too many things lately. So let's give Dirk a big thank you for his hard work.

    Meanwhile, I am going to take over the book promotions. It is going to take me a little bit to catch so DO NOT SEND ME EMAILS... yet. I will be asking everyone who didn't receive a book to send me an email BUT NOT YET. It is going to take me a week to figure out where I am, who the publisher contacts are, and what I owe them in the way of winner's lists. So starting NEXT Monday, you can send me your name, address, daytime phone number, the book you won, and the URL of the thread where your name was announced as a winner.

    But only if you thank Dirk!


    Associate Instructor - Hofstra University
    Amazon Top 750 reviewer - Blog - Unresolved References - Book Review Blog
    Shailesh Chandra
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Aug 13, 2004
    Posts: 1081

    Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

    But only if you thank Dirk!


    I have never won a book :roll: but I have seen and everyone know that Dirk has done a great job.

    my salute to him

    Shailesh
    Varun Khanna
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: May 30, 2002
    Posts: 1400
    Thanks and great job Dirk


    - Varun
    Kishore Dandu
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jul 10, 2001
    Posts: 1934
    Thank you Dirk. He was doing his best. Hope to see him on the other aspects of the ranch.

    Good to see Tom back in the business.
    Carol Enderlin
    drifter
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Oct 10, 2000
    Posts: 1364
    Thanks Dirk!

    My favorite promotion so far was Mike Clark's Pragmatic Project Automation. I don't think I posted, but read all the posts and ordered the book during the promotion.

    My favorite book (so far ) that I won during a JavaRanch promotion is Ian Darwin's O'Reilly Cookbook. That promotion was also great.

    Thanks again. Dirk and JavaRanch Rock!
    Anselm Paulinus
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Sep 05, 2003
    Posts: 389
    Originally posted by Shailesh Chandra:


    agreed...that comments are expressed in better way. I am really depress to see this thread.

    The way this thread has turned up into individual expression of feeling.

    First time I have found moderators very strict on a rancher,and this doesn't make this place friendly.

    A rancher being aggressive can be expected but a moderator I don't think so

    There is something in this thread I don't have word for, but is not comfortable.

    We know that we are guest here, but top of that we have own willingness and feeling (that we are part of this) with Javaranch, which pull us to the forum

    Shailesh



    Never mind; just as moderators are watching ranchers. I am also watching the moderators. I hope they do not compel me to demote or even ban some of them out right, anyway I woke up with the right side this morning.
    Anselm Paulinus
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Sep 05, 2003
    Posts: 389
    Thanks Dirk; I definitely will not ban you knowing how hard working you 've been.
    Shailesh Chandra
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Aug 13, 2004
    Posts: 1081

    Originally posted by Anselm Paulinus:

    Never mind





    I wanted to pull this thread out of heat, and that is what I am striving for.

    I think, now the thread has reached to state from where It can be persisted. Now I am quite comfortable to see this thread and dont want this thread to go in any loop

    Shailesh
    Jeanne Boyarsky
    internet detective
    Marshal

    Joined: May 26, 2003
    Posts: 30076
        
    149

    Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
    But only if you thank Dirk!

    Good way to get Dirk the thanks he deserves.

    And thanks to you in advance for taking this on!
     
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