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sgwbutcher
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 13, 2000
Posts: 56
<ramble>In related news (sorry, it's 2:33a here in DC and I'm getting a little punchy)...
I posted a resume on Monster.com and have had 330 "look-sees" and about 10 recruiter calls.
The response on SCJP varies: one woman said it was great that it was very hard to do and they were rare. Others have said, that's great but what hands-on ("paid") experience do you have...which is basically none.
(Someone please send me specs for an applet to code so I can say I have hands on experience). This is obviously a realistic request in some cases (although I put in my resume that I didn't have any experience and that I was in the process of a career change...so I don't know why they're calling me to begin with).
Obviously, no one could get experience if someone wasn't interested in hiring the inexperienced or even unexperienced so I'm just going a long and trying to write some code every day and still keep my consultancy up and running and paying the bills...although that can't last forever because I can't take a job if I have clients but if I don't have a job offer, I can't stop taking clients.</ramble>
<rant>The question I have is does anyone know who is making this position descriptions and employment decisions? They are asking for junior positions with 1-2 years of experience in a programming language that is only 5 years old and maybe only 3 years in the mainstream. Some of the APIs are barely 1-2 years old. I dunno...it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.</rant>
OK, I feel better now. Well, I'd feel much better if someone would offer me a job.
Steve


-------------------------<BR>Steve<BR>sgwbutcher@aol.com<BR>http://hometown.aol.com/sgwbutcher/
J Fitzryan
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 21, 2000
Posts: 8
I recently completed a search for a Java development position and felt similar frustration. Nine out of ten companies that are looking for Java developers won't consider hiring someone without Java experience.
Here's what I suggest:
1. Don't put a lot of faith in staffing agencies. Companies tell them to find experienced Java developers, so the agencies aren't going to want to take a chance on you.
2. Obtain Developer certification. Not only will this look good on your resume, but you'll do a programming assignment that you can share as a sample of what you can do.
3. Read up on EJBs and servlets. Three out of four companies are looking for people familiar with these technologies.
4. Post your resume on a variety of websites: Dice, Monster, etc. But don't put your phone number on it; just your email address.
sgwbutcher
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 13, 2000
Posts: 56
Thanks for the suggestions.
I hadn't thought about the Developer exam that way although I had thought about taking it as the next logical step.
I am going to remove my phone number from my Monster resume right after I'm done with this.
I've been reading up on Servlets, JDBC, JSP, (it's hardly rocket science--unless you get employed by Honeywell, then I guess it kind of is ).
Thanks again.
Steve
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
My suggestion is:
Develope a project using servlet jsp html javascript,jdbc and then post on the web, you can post your project on the
http://www.webappcabaret.com
that is a free server, you can at least demonstrate you know how to do servlet jsp etc.
there is another free server : http://www.mycgiserver
it support ejb, but not database.
Ben Weaver
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 10, 2000
Posts: 40
Wow, our server just went down and my long reply here was wiped out. ANYWAY, here is what I said in an abbreviated format.
I have been having good luck on the job search here in Washington D.C. and I know that this in part owes to my experience with relational databases.
1. Learn about databases if you don't know them already. Oracle is the best one to know. You might buy a copy of personal Oracle which you can install on your p.c. Alternatively, download one of the free online databases, i.e. MySqL or Postgres (I think).
2. Write a servlet that connects to this database via JDBC. If you can write a JDBC-enabled servlet, you will likely be able to land a job. To learn about servlets, read sun's online servlet tutorials (www.javasoft.com, under the "developer" category, or, as I HIGHLY recommend, read "Core Servlets and Java Server Pages," by Marty Hall. These materials will give you what you need to know. Learn about the Java JDBC interface (a much else) from David Flanagan's "Java Enterprise in a Nutshell," or from the jdbc tutorial at www.javasoft.com.
What's hot? Well, in D.C., servlets are huge, Java Server Pages (jsp), perhaps even more so. After writing a servlet or two, describing WHAT YOUR PROGRAM DOES in your resume, and after applying for a few jobs, then write a couple of JSPs. Learn about JSP from Hall's book or from online tutorials by IBM (hunt around on their "education" site), by Gamelan (look this up on yahoo) and other sites gleaned from a search on yahoo for "Java Server Page tutorial." JSP error messages will seem weird and frustrating for two days. Then, when you will realize that most of the weirdness derives from improper placement of jsp tags (e.g. "<", ">"), they will get alot easier.
Want a little pizzaz? Learn a little XML. To find out what XML is, read the comments by Frank Carver, et al. in the XML chat group on this website (Javaranch). Then buy "XML Step by Step," by Microsoft Press to start with simple applications writable on Microsofte explorer 5. There's also a good tutorial called "Learn XML in 11.5 minutes on the web on some website (maybe xml.com).
Want a little more pizazz? Go to Nokia.com and download their WAP wireless server emulator. Hunt around on the web for a tutorial on WAP-enabled servlets (there are several of these). Write one of the servlets, or (as I did), modify one of their examples. They aren't hard. However, these will appear as attractive tinsel decorating your resume, and may differentiate you as a job candidate.
Nevertheless, most important of all I have mentioned is to learn how to connect to a relational database and to display the information extracted from them on the web.
Good luck!
Ben Weaver
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 10, 2000
Posts: 40
Also, get around the recruiters by finding job listings in
(1) hotjobs.com
(2) newsgroups (Thanks, Tony Alicea!)
(3) newspapers
(4) local tech newspapers or websites (to find these, go to the biggest bookstore in an area where there is a lot of programming going on, ask the next person in the Java section, "Are you a Java programmer?" and ask him/her what local sources exist. In the Baltimore/Washington D.C. area, for example, there is a site www.haborjava.org. Humble it may look, and shut down it may often be on its little server, but real jobs it lists from the companies themselves.
Ben Weaver
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 10, 2000
Posts: 40
That's www.harborjava.org
sgwbutcher
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 13, 2000
Posts: 56
Dear Ben and Tony,
Thanks for your advice. I've gotten quite a bit lately and I'm thankful to all the helpful parties.
BTW, the IT Career Expo mentioned in my other post, if nothing else, was a nice source of new pens, mousepads and a laserball. (Seriously, I made a lot of nice contacts, we'll see what happens).
Steve
fan mo
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 14, 2000
Posts: 36
Hi, Ben,
I am currently looking for java job and very interested in what you mentioned in your post.
I don't know if you could give us the exact links for some sample projectes you mentioned, such as Nokia WAP server download
sites and tutorial examples and other useful projects links.

Regards
fan
sgwbutcher
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 13, 2000
Posts: 56
Fan,
Here is the starting URL for the Nokia WAP Toolkit 2.0; you need only register as a WAP developer to download (at least that is what it says...).
http://www.nokia.com/corporate/wap/sdk.html
It's PC only so it looks like I'll have to borrow one of those things...do you guys really get any work done on those things?
I imagine the rest can be found using "WAP Servlet Java" or some combination thereof in the search engine of your choice.
"Learn XML in 11.5 minutes" is at the following URL:

http://www.geocities.com:80/SiliconValley/Peaks/5957/10minxml.html
Steve
exceptionraised@aol.com
[This message has been edited by sgwbutcher (edited September 01, 2000).]
Michelle Kapusta
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 02, 2000
Posts: 8
Steve,
I agree with Ben, check out the harbor java users group. They have meetings the first Wed of every month. They are very well attended and very informative. In fact, this Wed is the next meeting at 7PM. I have found that many people in the DC area come to this group. The people I have met there report to me that "this is the best one in the area." I don't know if that is true but you will find many people to network with since there is generally about 30-40 people at every meeting.
Good luck!
Ben Weaver
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 10, 2000
Posts: 40
Mo et al.,
Pardon the delay; I've been too busy the past few weeks to visit this site. I forget the urls of those WAP tutorials. If I find them, I'll let you know. Do what I did; type in "WAP tutorial" or "Nokia tutorial" in Yahoo, and see what you get.
 
 
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