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which chapter is the hardest for you?

adam Lui
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Joined: Sep 03, 2007
Posts: 186
(source: K& B)

assuming the K&B is the guideline here, which chapter you, either you are an undergoing or completed exam taker, is the most challenging and hardest for you?

[List]
Chapter 1: Declarations and Access Control

Chapter 2: Object Orientation

Chapter 3: Assignments

Chapter 4: Operators

Chapter 5: Flow Control, Exceptions, and Assertions

Chapter 6: Strings, I/O, Formatting, and Parsing

Chapter 7: Generics and Collections

Chapter 8: Inner Classes

Chapter 9: Threads

Chapter 10: Development
[\List]

to me, Chapter 6: Strings, I/O, Formatting, and Parsing is, it is just, the MOST DAMN BORING, UNPLEASURING, "hard-core" unnecessary and so not practical , not useful knowledge i have to go through!!!

(sorry i have just been studying too much today as i try to stuff this damn format thingy into my head ! LOL)

well i found other chapters are fine, esp Collections are quite easy and natural to go through, it feels more realistic.

what about you guys?
P Ventura
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Joined: Jan 24, 2007
Posts: 42
7 and 6


Objective: SCJP 1.5<br /><a href="http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Thread.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">API</a><br /> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">code:</font><hr><pre><font size="2"><br />Double n1 = Double.NaN; Double n2 = Double.NaN;<br /> n1.equals(n2) // true even though Double.NaN != Double.NaN<br />-0.0 == +0.0; // true<br />Double n1 = -0.0;Double n2 = +0.0;<br />n1.equals(n2) // false even though -0.0 == +0.0<br /></font></pre><hr></blockquote>
Kelvin Chenhao Lim
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 20, 2007
Posts: 513
Originally posted by adam Lui:
to me, Chapter 6: Strings, I/O, Formatting, and Parsing is, it is just, the MOST DAMN BORING, UNPLEASURING, "hard-core" unnecessary and so not practical , not useful knowledge i have to go through!!!

Hey Adam,

You have my deepest sympathies. Seriously, however, I find it rather surprising that you described Chapter 6 as impractical and not useful. In my work experience so far, I probably use all of the stuff described in Chapter 6 (and 9) far more than the often pedantic language features described in the other chapters. Perhaps your application domain's just very different from mine--but frankly I don't see how any Java programmer can survive for long without a thorough knowledge of string manipulation, the I/O classes, regular expressions, and tokenizing/parsing. I mean, I don't exactly love this stuff either, but even I've come to know it extremely well just because I have to use it all the time.

So keep going, and don't be discouraged! There are very good reasons why Sun decided to (re-)include these topics in the SCJP certification exam. These API contents are truly the bread and butter of Java programming. You're definitely doing yourself a huge favor by learning them now, even if the toy examples in the mock exams don't fully illustrate how important they are.

Good luck!


SCJP 5.0
adam Lui
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 03, 2007
Posts: 186
Originally posted by Kelvin Lim:

Hey Adam,

You have my deepest sympathies. Seriously, however, I find it rather surprising that you described Chapter 6 as impractical and not useful. In my work experience so far, I probably use all of the stuff described in Chapter 6 (and 9) far more than the often pedantic language features described in the other chapters. Perhaps your application domain's just very different from mine--but frankly I don't see how any Java programmer can survive for long without a thorough knowledge of string manipulation, the I/O classes, regular expressions, and tokenizing/parsing. I mean, I don't exactly love this stuff either, but even I've come to know it extremely well just because I have to use it all the time.

So keep going, and don't be discouraged! There are very good reasons why Sun decided to (re-)include these topics in the SCJP certification exam. These API contents are truly the bread and butter of Java programming. You're definitely doing yourself a huge favor by learning them now, even if the toy examples in the mock exams don't fully illustrate how important they are.

Good luck!




this world is so beautiful and becomes so cruel sometimes isnt it!
i am surprised by you have to apply the stuff in chapter 6 the most at the work place, rather than collections, OO, etc which i thought of how the real world would be...
well i guess i just brew a nice cup of java and to keep myself going til the exam then.

Happy java-ing!
Kelvin Chenhao Lim
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 20, 2007
Posts: 513
Originally posted by adam Lui:
this world is so beautiful and becomes so cruel sometimes isnt it!
i am surprised by you have to apply the stuff in chapter 6 the most at the work place, rather than collections, OO, etc which i thought of how the real world would be...

Haha. Well, we do use the collections framework every day as well, but so far I've never had a need to write my own generic methods/classes. And OO design principles are of course extremely important in software engineering, but the SCJP exam barely covers those topics, so I wasn't thinking about that chapter in my previous post. Anyway, happy java-ing to you too!
Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8815
    
    5
This is an interesting discussion. I can tell you that the team that creates these exams puts a lot of thought into what topics should be included. When the 5.0 exam was being created we had long discussions about which 1.4 objectives seemed to be wearing well, and which seemed to be less important. You'll notice that we decided that bit twiddling and the use of the Math class were removed from the 5.0 exam. Then we had to decide what should be added to the exam. There was so much new in 5.0, and of course no one really knew how popular the new Java 5.0 features would be. In the end, the principles that drove a lot of the decisions were:

- trust that the new features in Java 5.0 ought to be well covered
- make sure that candidates could demonstrate an ability to interpret and use the API, and had a basic familiarity with some of the most commonly used packages and classes in the API.

As always, we pay attention to your feedback, so if you have some ideas about how the objectives should be tweaked - bring 'em on. The better thought out and well researched your ideas are, the more weight they will carry!

Thanks,

Bert


Spot false dilemmas now, ask me how!
(If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
adam Lui
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 03, 2007
Posts: 186
Originally posted by Bert Bates:
This is an interesting discussion. I can tell you that the team that creates these exams puts a lot of thought into what topics should be included. When the 5.0 exam was being created we had long discussions about which 1.4 objectives seemed to be wearing well, and which seemed to be less important. You'll notice that we decided that bit twiddling and the use of the Math class were removed from the 5.0 exam. Then we had to decide what should be added to the exam. There was so much new in 5.0, and of course no one really knew how popular the new Java 5.0 features would be. In the end, the principles that drove a lot of the decisions were:

- trust that the new features in Java 5.0 ought to be well covered
- make sure that candidates could demonstrate an ability to interpret and use the API, and had a basic familiarity with some of the most commonly used packages and classes in the API.

As always, we pay attention to your feedback, so if you have some ideas about how the objectives should be tweaked - bring 'em on. The better thought out and well researched your ideas are, the more weight they will carry!

Thanks,

Bert


Howdy Bert,
It is an honor that you are in my message, I shall salute hard to you haha

My friend recently completed the exam and he had this feeling that the exam expected us to memorize stuff, like what arguments this method can take in all overloading form, which fortunately he did spend a lot of time to memorize them (I know it is not appropriate to say WHICH one here)
My thought and experience throughout my studies is that, sorry if I offend the team of your profession, the stuff which you need to memorize for the exam, it will be available at the work place anyway i.e. the API "dictionary" on the net. When we actually get to write code, dont we use the API dictionary from time to time? would it be more efficient to put a bigger scale on a candidate skill in logic stuff rather than their memory ability?

an honest thought

p.s. by the way isnt Java such a cool name, please tell Mr. James Gosling the Great. Because I am such a coffee person thats how i end up a JAVA exam taker (final boolean myStupidJoke = false
Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8815
    
    5
Hi Adam,

While it is true that some memorization is required, the reality is that there is less memorization involved than you might think.

In a perfect world, we would be able to provide the API doc during the exam, but alas, given the constraints of providing the same exam experience for candidates world-wide, and at a reasonable rate, we have to work within certain technical restraints.

I think the reality is that most of the "memorization" has to do with understanding the intentions of the classes in the API. For instance, the exam team thinks that it's important for candidates to know (you could say "memorize"), that the methods for getting elements in and out of maps are different than the methods for getting elements in and out of lists.

So, I guess the bottom line is that if you give the exam a cursory look, it might feel like there is too much memorization involved, but I can tell you that in many cases, when you look at an exam question, you will be able to deduce the correct answer, even if you haven't memorized the API, if you DO understand the ideas behind the classes being used.

The other concept that we grapple with is what is sometimes referred to as "language lawyer" stuff. For example, we argued about whether we ought to test the candidate on the rules associated with using var-args. This kind of discussion is a slippery slope - we often here that "in the real world" candidates will always look stuff up in the API or the spec., and while there is some truth to that, the other perspective is that if you're an SCJP, there ought to be a lot of stuff that you don't have to look up

Thoughts?

Bert
abhishek pendkay
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 01, 2007
Posts: 184
I agree with Bert( not just because he has written some of the best books on JAVA and he is one of my fav author along with Kathy ) and i will tell you why
When I gave SCJP 5 i never felt the need to memorize anything because if you program regularly in JAVA then you just know the stuff required for the exam, but if you try to study for the exam without writing programs then only you feel the need to memorize....
Also always try to understand things and the need for memorization will never occur like Bert said in his post

I think the reality is that most of the "memorization" has to do with understanding the intentions of the classes in the API. For instance, the exam team thinks that it's important for candidates to know (you could say "memorize"), that the methods for getting elements in and out of maps are different than the methods for getting elements in and out of lists.


and i completely agree with that
so in my view trust the people who have created the exam, they must have certainly put a lot of thought in making the exam ,
and try to understand the stuff and you wont need to memorize anything
[ November 11, 2007: Message edited by: abhishek pendkay ]

The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking which created them – Einstein
SCJP 1.5, SCWCD, SCBCD in the making
nico dotti
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 09, 2007
Posts: 124
FWIW I was a java programmer for two years WAY back in 2000-2002. I want to get back into the job market and have decided a certification would be a good means of doing so. When I started the book I was doing fairly well on the self tests for the first half of the book as the concepts were fairly familiar. However, I've just finished the book today and I have struggled with all but the last chapter on development ever since chapter 6.

Hardest? For me, Chapter 7 combines a lot of material between Collections and Generics and would be my vote. However, Threads was a hard one though fun because I new it would be challenging maybe I got into it more because of that.

I'm freaking out as I feel I'm weak on the whole second half of the book! I'm going to have to take a ton of mock exams, code 'another' thousand test programs (I've been coding as I read!), and probably re-read much of these sections. Damn, my test date is Nov 30 just 2 1/2 weeks away...I'm getting worried I won't be ready - I guess there's always the retake option if I can't 'hack' it.
 
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