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will scjp help without having a technical background........?????

Raghav Mathur
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2001
Posts: 641
hi !
i,am a literature student for the last 3 years ...... besides i've done a diploma in software .
tech like java , oracle ...... if i do scjp ... how will it help me .... mind you , i dont have a tech
background.
i've got a 4 months exp in jsp and beans .
convince me please ...... i have an english( hons ) degree .
plus a 1.5 year diploma..
bye
thanx in advance.


Raghav.
Peter Lyons
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 12, 2000
Posts: 202
Lots of people post this type of question. Let me summarize the answers:
Some people say SCJP helps you get a job.
Some people say SCJP doesn't help you get a job.
But nobody ever says it hurts your chances to get a job!
Raghav Mathur
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2001
Posts: 641
hi ....
what you have given me doesn't have any relation with my query ..... please what is being asked .... i,am just not able to get you .
thanx ...
raghav...
Peter Lyons
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 12, 2000
Posts: 202
Well, without a tech background (which was my situation a year ago) you'll have to do whatever you can to make yourself look like a reasonable candidate for a junior developer position. Earning your SCJP could only help. I think this is one of those "just do it" things. What else are you going to do?
...and by the way, whatever you did to get 4 months of experience in jsp and beans... you should keep doing that!
[This message has been edited by Peter Lyons (edited April 04, 2001).]
Raghav Mathur
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2001
Posts: 641
hi ...peter .
i've been working as a trainee in a software firm .
i've got no technical background but surly i,am gonna complete my scjp for better oppurtunities..... what else can i do to make myself the right candidate ...?
thanx
Peter Lyons
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 12, 2000
Posts: 202
Well, I'd say that anything you do to expand your technical knowledge in Java and related technologies can only help. When I found this job, I did not have my SCJP, and was working through a couple courses in Java at a technical school. I had also taken some Pascal as an undergraduate ten years earlier, and had been working with computers since then, but not in software development. I sent out a lot of resumes and made a lot of phone calls. I was the wrong candidate for probably a hundred companies... and the right candidate for one. Fortunately, I only needed one job!
Raghav Mathur
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2001
Posts: 641
gotta convince me guys ... i,am still not satisfied woth your suggestions ...... please disscuss it over
John Coxey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 24, 2000
Posts: 503
Raghav:
1. Get as much experience as you can. If you are at a company now and are doing Java - keep doing it. The magic number here in USA is 3+ years - for whatever IT specialty you are pursuing.
2. Get the SCJP2 exam under your belt. Then of course, go for the developer exam and then the architect exam. Any of the Sun Microsystem Java certifications will help. I do not put any stock in the Brainbench ones.
3. Learn EJB - Do some EJB type projects.
4. Learn Servlets - Do some Servlet type projects.
5. Be able to explain / outline the projects you have done - so that you can refer to them during your interviews.
6. Learn XML.
7. Learn UML - this is a pain - but learn it.
8. Get a B.S.-CompSci degree. It's a tough road - but you may need to go this route. Most USA companies will pick up the tuition bill for college - but you gotta go 1 class at a time - so takes quite a while.
9. Get all the job experience you can get. Can't stress this enough.
----------------
The SCJP2 programmer exam by itself will not do much for your career. But combine it with experience, an IT degree, other knowledge and it helps. Where the SJCP2 exam really helps is with junior to mid level tech questions during an interview. It also helps to separate you from the herd.
Hope this is what you were looking for.
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)


John Coxey
Evansville, Indiana, USA
Raghav Mathur
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2001
Posts: 641
hey john .... tell me more about b.s in computer science .
i,am in india where we do not have these degrees .... if b.s is the priority then i'll have to find i job in usa and continue with the degree ...
by the way what is the eligibility for the degree in b.s ... i've been a literature student for the last 3 years and did a diploma in java and other web technologies .
do tell me
mail me at rax_india@yahoo.com
John Coxey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 24, 2000
Posts: 503
Raghav:
B.S.Degree - stands for Bachelor of Science
In the USA - the college degree hierarchy goes as follows:
Bachelor of Science or Bachelor of Arts (4 years)
Master of Science (1-2 years)
Doctor of Philososhy (3-7 years, but usually done in 3 years)
-----------
To get into a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science program, you basically need basic English reading/writing skills, probably Algebra/Trigonometry classes, perhaps a foreign language.
In Pennsylvania - if you are a resident - the state sponsored schools (like Penn State University) - MUST accept you. Note, you may have to take some basic non-credit classes - but you are guaranteed a spot. There really is no competition - unlike say Harvard or Carnegie Mellon University.
To become a resident of Pennsylvania - you just need to live there and pay taxes for 12 months. Not a big deal. Of course, you still have to pay tuition.
Your job would be to get into the USA.
Being state sponsored means they get govt. money for their programs/etc. But you still have to pay $$ to go there. Did not want to give you a false impression here.
Given that there is no competition to get it. The college does a lot of "weeding out" during the 1st and 2nd years. Students basically "drop out" of the program due to the difficulties associated with a tough major.
A 1st year class of 100 students may end up with 25 students at the end of the 4th year. Really, 75% of the students in the Comp Sci major will drop out or change majors.
---------
Most of the course you take will be theory oriented - and have absolutely nothing to do directly with real-world skills. You won't see an XML, UML, EJB class at a typical 4 year college. You are lucky if you get to see Java. Most use C/C++. You will see Prolog and Lisp (both are pretty dead now - but colleges like to teach them).
Granted, there are exceptions - but I am talking mainstream USA colleges like University of Pittsburgh, or Penn State University.
Even Lehigh with their $2800 per class tuition rate - did not teach any real-world classes.
-----------
Regarding the number of classes:
Most classes are 3 credits, except you first 3 semesters (1.5 years) of Calculus which are 4 credits a piece. You need between 120 and 130 credits to graduate (depends on the college and their curriculum - everyone is slightly different).
You take roughly 15 credits or 4 to 5 classes per semester.
From my days at Univ of Pittsburgh:
BTW/ a semester is 15 weeks long.
1st Semester:
- Introduction to Pascal (3 credits)
- Calculus - I (4 credits)
- English Composition - I (3 credits)
- History (3 credits)
- Economics - I (3 credits)
Total of 16 credits.
2nd Semester
- VAX/VMS Assemler Language (3 credits)
- English Writing - II (3 credits)
- History - II (3 credits)
- Calculus - II (4 credits)
- Economics - II (3 credits)
Total of 16 credits
-----------------------------------------
Hope this gives you an idea of the number on non-directly related to computer science classes that you have to take.
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)
[This message has been edited by John Coxey (edited April 27, 2001).]
Annie Weaver
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 17, 2001
Posts: 50
University of Maryland University College
(What a redundant and repetitive name - you can say that again!)
and
Virginia Tech
both have online degrees. These schools have great reputations.
My undergrad is actually in French Lit, although I had most of an EE degree when I copped out. Now I have an MBA and a degree in National Security Affairs. But I will probably have to get a technical degree underway soon. I was looking at the Master's in Information Technology from Virginia Tech - It's online and it's java. But maybe I need CS in the degree title. What do you think?
 
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subject: will scjp help without having a technical background........?????