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What else certifications?

Megan Jun
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 11, 2001
Posts: 3
Hi, all,
I am a SCJP2, and working on my Master's of information science. At the mean while, I want to get to some more certifications. What kind of certifications will help me after I graduate (in a year or so)? Please reply, thanks.
Raghav Mathur
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2001
Posts: 641
you can go for ibm , cisco , xml , java developer , oracle , ooad and many more ..... i would advice you to go for cisco .
By the way , if you don't mind , can you provide me with some information about MS in computer science .... i,am from india .... what all i need to get admision in a good colllege and complete MS in computer science .
I,am a literature graduate ... wish to pursue MS


Raghav.
Kajol Shroff
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 160
Hi Megan,
If you can also provide me the information about MS that would be really nice and helpfull to me now.. please dont delay in replying...
Kajol
Raghav Mathur
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2001
Posts: 641
HI MEGAN
ME AND KAJOL ARE WAITING FOR YOUR REPLY ABOUT THE MS PROGRAMME .... PLEASE REPLY BACK
[This message has been edited by raghav mathur (edited June 13, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by raghav mathur (edited June 13, 2001).]
John Coxey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 24, 2000
Posts: 503
All:
Look at the following two websites for information regarding the MS-Computer science program.
My suggestion would be to write to the appropriate department and request information on the MS-Computer Science program as well as a course catelog for the department/program.
These will tell you the admissions proceedures, costs involved, and expected coursework.
I know that colleges get requests everyday for such information. You may want to send an e-mail (use proper English) to the contact person asking the proper procedures for requesting such information - especially when it comes to postage to India. I know that US Colleges send this information for free to US postal addresses. Again, not sure if they will do the same for Indian addresses. The packet will usually contain an admissions form.
This process should be considered as time consuming as a job search. My advice would be to talk to your local colleges (or the equivalent of such) in India. Perhaps they or your libary (if they have these in India) will have course catelogs from US Colleges. Even if the information is out of date - at least you can get a better feel for the requirements.
--------------
Some things to expect with MS-Computer Science program.
1. You may need to show that you can meet financial obligations up front. Perhaps a letter from your bank or govt (if sponsored by them).
2. You may need to take Graduate Record Examination (GRE). This is a standardized test that you take to get into MS program. I had to do this when I sought admission to Lehigh University. I considered it to me more of a pain and inconvenience than anything.
3. Realize that the competition for grad school admissions in USA is not that great. Nothing at all like undergraduate (the BS degree) admissions which are super competitive for the good colleges. So you have a real chance to get in. Your biggest hurdle will be financial costs.
4. They may require that you take an English proficiency exam. This is standard for students from overseas.
5. You may have to take additional coursework as a condition of admittance to MS program. The coursework could be completed at the same university as you are getting MS degree from. Again, this is normal.
6. Not sure if you can get any financial-aid or work-study type financial assistance. Again, you will need to talk to the college.
7. Grad school in USA is expensive. Lehigh runs about US $2700 per class. Classes run 15 weeks. You have two - 15 week semesters per year - plus a summer session with very limited selections. Also, only grades of B (85%) or higher count towards the degree. Also, the course work is very very theoretical. You won't be taking any Java/EJB type classes. Instead, you will be taking classes like "Advanced Compiler Design" or "Expert Systems". You support your classes with projects - and this is where you get some experience.
You will need 10-12 classes for MS-Computer Science program.
8. Again, don't let all of this get you down. It's like a job search. You just keep knocking at doors - getting information a little bit at a time until you can piece it all together.
Hope this helps
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)

P.S. The two websites:
www.lehigh.edu www.pitt.edu
You will have to hunt/peck around to find information. Look under grad school admissions and then look for Electrical Engineering / Computer Science departments. Gotta keep plowing through site(s) to find appropriate information.
[This message has been edited by John Coxey (edited June 13, 2001).]


John Coxey
Evansville, Indiana, USA
John Coxey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 24, 2000
Posts: 503
Additional Information:
Admissions information for MSIS (MS - Information Science) program at University of Pittsburgh: http://www.sis.pitt.edu/~dist/apply.html
Office of International Services at University of Pittsburgh
May be able to answer more general questions regarding India vs. USA. http://www.pitt.edu/~ivan1/ois/oiswww.html
I hope the above helps. If not, then you need to keep looking and doing your own research.
=====
Even as a US citizen - I was totally overwhelmed when I first started looking at going to college. But, I stuck it out and plodded my way through the mess.
The important thing to realize is that colleges want your money (especially at the grad school level). Remember, anyone who wants your money is usually willing to talk with you.
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Just to piggyback on what John said regarding theoretical classes versus practical classes. There are some schools that lean more towards the practical side than the theoretical side. One such grad school is John Hopkins, where Marty Hall (author of Core Servlets and Java Server Pages) teaches. Classes at a school like Hopkins are often directly relevant to work you may be performing when you graduate. On the other hand, some schools gear their curriculum more towards theoretical/scientific computing, such as John mentioned. Many classes at this type of insitution lean much heavier towards the mathematical side of computing (symbolic computing, cryptology, automata, algorithms, even databases with a mathematical flair).
Given what I said you might think that a more practical school would be the way to go. I have a different opinion. Realistically, any CS person can pick up a book and figure out EJBs, but where are you going to learn to create efficient complex algorithms, or compiler design, or any of these other more hard-core CS topics? While you may not get a job directly using some of the advanced things you learned in school (on the other hand you may), this advanced theory will make you a far better programmer down the line in my opinion. You will take seemingly unrelated things that you learned and find ways to apply that knowledge to your current job.
I see it in my job now with some of the CS people vs the IS people. The IS person may be technically as proficient a programmer as the CS person, but generally the CS folks know WHY they are doing something, and have that extra store of knowledge to draw on, whereas the IS folks don't (in my area CS is taught far more theory and than the IS folks, who learn mostly how to apply a technology). Anyway that's my opinion on whether to choose a grad school that is more practical or theoretical, but it is a decision everyone has to make for themselves.
Let me put in a plug for my school, the University of Maryland Baltimore County (UMBC), www.umbc.edu.

[This message has been edited by Jason Menard (edited June 13, 2001).]
Desai Sandeep
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 02, 2001
Posts: 1157
This looks to be an interesting discussion.
I had a query.Does the ratings of the Grad school matter a lot from the point of view of job search.Say you have got admission in 100+ ranking school (which is ofcourse accredited!) is it worth going for it?
Thanks in advance,

<b>Sandeep</b> <br /> <br /><b>Sun Certified Programmer for Java 2 Platform</b><br /> <br /><b>Oracle Certified Solution Developer - JDeveloper</b><br /><b>-- Oracle JDeveloper Rel. 3.0 - Develop Database Applications with Java </b><br /><b>-- Object-Oriented Analysis and Design with UML</b><br /> <br /><b>Oracle Certified Enterprise Developer - Oracle Internet Platform</b><br /><b>-- Enterprise Connectivity with J2EE </b><br /><b>-- Enterprise Development on the Oracle Internet Platform </b>
Desai Sandeep
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 02, 2001
Posts: 1157
This looks to be an interesting discussion.
I had a query.Does the ratings of the Graduate school matter a lot from the point of view of job search.Do I consider seeking admission in 100+ ranking school (which is accredited!)?Is it worth it?
Also, where do I authentic information on the rankings of a Graduate school?
Thanks in advance,
Sandeep

  • Sun Certified Programmer for Java 2 Platform Scored 93 per cent
  • Oracle JDeveloper Rel. 3.0 - Develop Database Applications with Java Scored 56 out of 59
  • IBM Enterprise Connectivity with J2EE Scored 72 per cent
  • Enterprise Development on the Oracle Internet Platform Scored 44 out of 56

  • [This message has been edited by Desai Sandeep (edited June 13, 2001).]
John Coxey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 24, 2000
Posts: 503
Desai Sandeep:
Regarding rankings - I don't put much value into that when it comes to a job search. I would hope that 15 seconds into an interview - the interviewer would realize I am not a genius but just another schmuck with a few technical degrees trying to get an IT job.
My opinion is that you want to go to a school that is well known throught the USA. In my case, Lehigh University is known fairly well on the East Coast - but not all that well out here in Denver, CO. But everyone has heard of the University of Pittsburgh.
In your particular case - I would look at a state-supported college or university. Examples: University of Pittsburgh, Penn State University, Univ of Maryland. These would fit along your price range - offer you a decent education - and are known in the market place.
Sure - you could try for Harvard, Yale, MIT - but the costs for grad school may be prohibitive. And if not, then certainly the cost of living in these areas would be.
On the other extreme - you don't want to go to "Eddies School of Medicine and Sewer Line Maintenance" - because no one has ever heard of it. And the IT program may be run by HTML tech school graduates.
So again, you need to do your research on the colleges you plan to apply to. I would say that you should apply to 2 or 3 grad schools - after doing your research on them - and then make your decision based on the offers or admittance and your own financial situation.
Hope this helps,
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)
Karthik Guru
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 1209

You might want to check out www.usnews.com
it has all the rankings out there.
I have this feeling that if we can't get into the top 15-20, it really does'nt matter anyway.
But we need to make sure that we are alteast somewhere in the range of 50.
W'd'nt higer ranked schools invite more career fairs? :-) with more number of companies participating in it?
I guess the geographical location of the school also matters?
a school near the bay area / say Austin w'd fetch you more jobs?
Desai Sandeep
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 02, 2001
Posts: 1157
Hi,
Thanks a lot for the response.
I am taking the last test of Jcert (OOAD with UML) tommorow.After that I propose to take my GRE test for Masters in the US.If any one is aware of any discussion forums for GRE/TOEFL of the kind of JavaRanch please do let me know.
- Sandeep

  • Sun Certified Programmer for Java 2 Platform Scored 93 per cent
  • Oracle JDeveloper Rel. 3.0 - Develop Database Applications with Java Scored 56 out of 59
  • IBM Enterprise Connectivity with J2EE Scored 72 per cent
  • Enterprise Development on the Oracle Internet Platform Scored 44 out of 56

  • [This message has been edited by Desai Sandeep (edited June 14, 2001).]
Megan Jun
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 11, 2001
Posts: 3
Sorry, KAJOL and RAGHAV, for replying late. John has described what are the needs. In order to be admitted in the Master's of CS/IS program, you need to have transcripts, undergraduate degree, references, GRE and TOEFL for international student.
According to my experience, if your background is not computer related, you will have a hard time to enroll in the MCS program or you will need to take a lot of undergrad courses to fulfill the requirement. If that is the case, apply MIS, which will be more likely to recognize your background.
Check this to find your dream school. http://dir.yahoo.com/Education/Higher_Education/Colleges_and_Universities/United_States/
I hope this help.
Raghav Mathur
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2001
Posts: 641

hi megan
About your post .... i've explored Brooklyn univ( i hope i spell it correctly) , university of Southern California also
Rochester institute of tech.

TEll me something megan ... MS is 1 year post graduate course ....ok .
SO what i've found is that if a person is not from the reqired background .....he/she can apply for
the foundation course which comprises of a 6 months intro to programming , networking and algorithms .
I've been programming for the last 1 year with java but do not hold a degree in the same , but a diploma .
So i guess it wont be recognised as the GRE/TOEFL .....is it not .
I've been a literature student for the last 3 years besides i completed my diploma ( 1.5 years ).
I wish to go for a quality course to upgrade my knowledge and attain a degree .
Tell me if my information about the foundation courses could be a help to me or not .
What i feel is that a 6 months foundation course shouldn't be a burden but will prove to be an asset.
TEll me if something more would be required .
thanks in advance
raghav
rax_india@yahoo.com
raghavmathur@indiatimes.com
Kajol Shroff
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 160
Hi,
I also would like to have some more info as to what Raghav says...
Please let us know guys ....we need the experts advice ..
people wake up...
Kajol
John Coxey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 24, 2000
Posts: 503
Raghav Mathur:
I think you are getting things mixed up with the GRE.
The GRE is almost a universal requirement for all CS/IS/Engineering/General Studies type graduate schools in the USA. Everyone who applies (there are exceptions) to the graduate school must take the GRE (Graduate Record Examination). This is a generic test comprised of three parts: english comprehension (called verbal) / mathematics / and logic reasoning. The exam is multiple choice - takes about 2 or 3 hours to get through - and yes, it is a timed exam. The exam is required of both USA Citizens as well as foreign citizens. It is not a Computer Science exam - just want to make that clear.
The TOEFL - is used to test your English skills - and is required if you are a foreign student. This can be waived if you can hold a decent English conversation with the University admissions people. It is basically used to inform the applicant whether he/she can understand English well enough to handle college classes.
Regarding pre-requisite classes. You MUST check with the particular program you are trying to get admitted into. Since you do not have an undergraduate CS/IS degree - you are probably going to have to do almost a year or two or additional prepatory coursework. Again, the requirements vary from college to college. You need to contact the college(s) you are interested in and explain your situation.
You don't want to spend 6 months doing prep-work only to find out that the college will not accept it.
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)

John Coxey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 24, 2000
Posts: 503
Raghav Mathur:
The prepatory classes you will need to get into a Computer Science graduate school program. Again, this is a high-level overview, you will need to check/verify with the college(s) you are interested in.
- Mathematics (Algebra, Calculus I, II, III, Discrete Mathematics, Linear or Matix Algebra)
- English (English I and Enlish II - also a Writing Class)
- Physics (Physics I and Physics II)
- Computer Science:
* Computer Architecture
* Operating Systems (2 semesters)
* Artificial Intelligence
* Computer Algorithms
* Data Structures
* Compiler Design
* One or Two Electives
* C / C++ and probably Java
---------------
It's tough to transfer into the MS-Computer Science program without a BS-Computer Science degree.
In the USA - at most colleges, you need another 10-15 classes (30 to 45 credits) to get the BS-Computer Science degree if you hold a degree in another field. Naturally, the more technical oriented your 1st degree was - the less your requirements for the 2nd degree in Comp Sci (BS) will be.
-----------
Even with a BS-Computer Science degree from University of Pittsburgh, I had to take 2 additional classes when I went into the MS-Computer Science program at Lehigh University.
Granted, all of this talk about pre-requisites and GRE exams and money seem overwhelming and get you down - but that's part of the process/emotional rollercoaster.
My advice is to contact the college(s) / get the requirements / take the GRE and TOEFL / apply to the college and get accepted / and go for it.
BTW/ My MS-Computer Science degree took me 2 1/2 yrs on a part time basis.
--------
What I love - is after going through all this to get an MS-Computer Sceience degree - the 18 month HTML school kids expect to get the same salary as we do. It may have been that way last year or two years ago - but not anymore. In fact, companies are weeding out these "tech school" graduates in favor of college degrees students. Of course, there are exceptions as in anything else in life.
So hang in there.
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)
Raghav Mathur
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2001
Posts: 641

john :

I,am not at all getting confused about the gre and toefl thing infact i've cleared toefl as being
a literature student .As far as the GRE thing goes , i,am absolutely fimiliar with the pattern.
The info i want to get is already given by you , but tell me one more thing .
What is the duration of MS and also BS .
The foundation course varries from univ to univ ..... what do you suggest .... should one opt for BS /cs or staright away shift to MS.
Also tell me what will be the duration of BS and MS ( also tell me indiavidual duration).
I would also like to know your personal views ..... thanks in advance.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
The general duration of a BS is four years. That assumes a 120 credit hour degree program, and 30 credits / year. A MS program generally takes about two years to complete. Some schools have combined BS/MS programs that may normally be completed in five years. Naturally these times have to be adjusted depending on how many credits you are actually taking.
Generally, one of the requirements for entering into a post-graduate degree program, such as a MS program, is that you have an undergraduate degree, such as a BS, from an accredited/recognized school.
John: It is becoming more common that you aren't required to take the GRE. I know this is true in some Maryland schools under certain circumstances. Besides what you mentioned, in some cases the GRE may be waived for individuals entering certain part-time programs, or for people attempting a Master's in an area closely related to their undergrad degree. As far as I know, John Hopkins doesn't require a GRE for individuals entering part-time graduate programs in Engineering and CS (not sure of any others). Also as far as I know Bowie State doesn't require a GRE at least in some circumstances. There may be others but I just happen to be aware of those two. Also, the University of Maryland Baltimore County (UMBC) MS/CS program does not require a GRE from students who have attained their BS/CS at UMBC, even though there may be a break between getting the BS and entering the MS program.
I think the reason this is happening more and more often is simply a function of dwindling revenues, but I could be mistaken.
John Coxey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 24, 2000
Posts: 503
Jason Menard:
For whatever reason, Lehigh required that I take the GRE exam. I think they were just looking for a minimum threshold.
I spent the $$ and went with Princeton Prep Classes for the GRE (took about 4 months to prepare for exam).
When I went in for the on-site interview with Lehigh - they spent all of about five minutes going over exam scores / previous course work / grades / etc. and then made me a verbal acceptance offer followedup with a formal written acceptance letter.
Personally, I think the colleges want the $$$ that grad school generates. In addition, I think enrollment in the CS program at Lehigh was down due to the good economic environment at the time.
I can say that the MS program was totally laid back compared to the BS program. I did put a lot more hours into the MS program - but I also had a heck of a lot more fun.
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)
John Coxey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 24, 2000
Posts: 503
Raghav Mathur:
What Jason said holds pretty much true across the board.
Since you have a Literature degree - some of the credits will count towards the 120 credits required for the BS-Comp Sci degree. Also, since your degree was earned in India - your mileage will vary. This is why you need to talk with the individual universities you are applying to.
Some will transfer credits - others will not.
----
I am headed out the door at 5AM for Philly, PA for two weeks - so won't be around. Monday is first day at the new job.
Let us know what happens with your college pursuits.
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)
Megan Jun
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 11, 2001
Posts: 3
Sorry, raghav, I have been constantly away from my computer these days.
Yes, the most accurate information will be from the schools.
Back to your questions,
The foundation courses are VERY costly and will not be counted as credit, if used to fulfill the requirement of Master's degree. The courses will only be credited if you apply for undergrad degree. Plus,you can study most of the foundation courses by yourself, if you have work experience.
Therefore, I will suggest that you will
1) evaluate the interested schools
2) contact the schools you really want to be admitted into
3) prepare the required documents and exams
4) follow the guidelines from the school
You also can consider applying undergrad degree first then finding a chance to switch to the MS program. This may help you get admitted and the F1 visa later.
 
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