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Web project still is the trend ?

Sylvia Wang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 10, 2001
Posts: 53
some saying Java will still be the hotest demanded in the job market if the web project is still the trend. otherwise Java can't compete with C/C++ or other languages.
I'm wondering if a project is not for web running, how many developers will choose Java ?
as the low market now, dotcoms are closing, new projects are on hold, there's no need of Java to support the existing projects (most are not in Java)
if, if the tide of web project just fade away like AI technology (many years ago) or others, is Java still a strong language compared with others ?
Gokhan Gultekin
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Posts: 27
Hi Sylvia,
IMHO,
Java is strong for building Internet applications. That is true and although it is a better implamenattion of a OO language than C++ there are still some areas that it is weaker than C++ such as real time applications. But I don't totaly agree that java will die because dot.coms are collapsing now. It is a robust technology and there will be heaps of project in the future espcially on the b2b side.
True that there is a huge contraction in Web Projects but i think it is the result of the rush started by those who were expecting to make easy money on the Internet and their wrong preditions. Most companies who made their forecasts according to this so called "new economy" such as Cisco, Lucent, etc. were caught with excessive inventories and too many staff. Since the the new economy did not turn out to be what was expected, started the dot.com collapses and lay offs.
I mean, come on , most of those dot.coms started just for the sake of being there among the first ones. If you don't have a realistic business strategy you just burn your money. So you cannot blame the technology for that.
Jim Baiter
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 05, 2001
Posts: 532
In the same fashion that the .coms where using Java, the brick and mortars are picking it up for their web apps. But there are competitors such as Microsoft with the .net framework. Hopefully, Java can withstand this lousy economy.
Gokhan Gultekin
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Posts: 27
However corporates who have good strategies for utilizing the Internet may have real benefits. But this will take some time. Because they have been using their exiting systems for a long time and it is not easy to switch to a new technology overnight. I mean it is not like putting a Web fronted database server on the net and expect people to leave their credit numbers and make big bucks from it. So corporates are really a bit cautious about all this new stuff. Here in Australia according to some recent surveys 20-25% of the big companies even don't use the e-mail at all. That shows how illiterate some companies are about the Internet.
But keep the faith. The future will be bright for Java.
Raghav Mathur
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2001
Posts: 641
its just not the web but embedded systems also ....check out the j2me section ........
Originally posted by Sylvia Wang:
some saying Java will still be the hotest demanded in the job market if the web project is still the trend. otherwise Java can't compete with C/C++ or other languages.
I'm wondering if a project is not for web running, how many developers will choose Java ?
as the low market now, dotcoms are closing, new projects are on hold, there's no need of Java to support the existing projects (most are not in Java)
if, if the tide of web project just fade away like AI technology (many years ago) or others, is Java still a strong language compared with others ?


Raghav.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
When people think Java they tend to think the internet, which is a little restricting. In truth Java is used widely in any situation in which client-server interaction may occur. So what you then have is Java being very widely used on company intranets, not just the internet.
Naturally many legacy systems still exitst in COBOL, but the trend for new development is Java, not COBOL. Java is going strong in the client-server market, which has pretty much becaome its niche. The application market still belongs to C/C++ for the most part.
The other thing I'm seeing done to some extent with Java, particularly in scientific computing where speed or real-time signal processing might be called for, is that the GUI is developed in Java, but the rest of the application is in another language. It's simply more cost effective to develope the GUI in Java than say OpenGL.
Bottom line is don't get too fixated on the dot.com demises. Java goes way beyong the internet.
Matthew Phillips
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 09, 2001
Posts: 2676
Does anyone see a future for Java in application development?
Matthew Phillips


Matthew Phillips
Gokhan Gultekin
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Posts: 27
I totally agree with Jason about employing Java for GUI development. Actually here in Monash Uni most of the lecturers are giving graduate projects which requires Java GUI development in Unix. One of my friends chose his project topic as writing a GUI with Java for an existing Lan Analyser program written in C/C++. Because GUIs do not include heavy CPU specific operations writing them in an interpreted lang like Java will not effect the performance of a real time application since the real time stuff will be handled with C/C++.
On the client/server it is also strong. I reckon object serialization makes life really easier. In a fully Java implementation of a client/server application you don't have to deal with transferring byte streams. Just make your objects serializable, write and read these objects on your Intranet. Even if you a VPN on the Internet I think Java is the most cost effective way of developing business solutions for distributed offices. I am sure the time will come when the old blokes in MIS departments of most companies will realize that there exists other technologies than the big blue.

Sylvia Wang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 10, 2001
Posts: 53
Just heard the layoff in 1 of HK's big telecommunication company, the major affected dept is e-commerce side, irony ?
most of the company's (small to middle) IT platform is still depend on Windows, when come to tranditional client/server project, there's much more easier to use, faster to setup tools can choose compared with Java. even GUI.
Microsoft survived from the split destiny. who can tell the IT trends in coming 1-2 years ? as to IT peoples, more important it means a rice-bowl.
Kajol Shroff
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 160
Hi Everybody,
This topic is the most hottest topic going around nowadays..
Is JAVA DEAD....for god sake how can a technology die..
and if JAVA is not worth using nowadays then why is that that Microsoft is comming up with a new langauage called DOT NET which uses applets .. or can i say something similar to JAVA..
Al I think is whichever technology it is .. if its good its not going to die.. and since people had not made proper use of JAVA in the client - server application and only had used it in DOT COMS so they think that JAVA is dead...
FOr god sake keep your eyes open guys...
Kajol
Gokhan Gultekin
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Posts: 27
Hi Sylvia,
I also read about the layoff of 340 people in PCCW today. Most of them from e-commerce dept. ha?.. Not a big surprise.
I reckon in next couple of years it will be again between the evil empire of Gates and the others(IBM, Sun, Oracle, etc.)
Microsoft is seriously keeping an eye on the OpenGL issue. I think they are bit annoyed hearing that IBM is investing about $1billion for Linux and OpenGL. That absolutely makes sense because IBM will want to end the Microsoft monopoly on the desktop. Linux was around and it was always strong an robust on the serverside and supporters of Linux want to make it stronger on the desktop and give an end to MS's domination. I got a version of Red hat 7.1 last month. It can be installed both as a server and worksation. And it is a lot easier to configure than the previous versions. You can configure almost everything by using menus. So in my opinion it will be the competition between Linux and Microsoft in the next couple years.
Sun is also giving full support to Linux because there is no resistance for the deployment of Java on this platform an as it becomes widely used Sun will definitely benefit from this. Ofcourse at the moment the out-from-the-shelf solutions are more attractive for most people. But how long can these small and medium companies bear the costs and keeping Gates the richest man on earth? Linux and OpenGL is definitely more cost effective
than MS.
So the war between OpenGL and Microsoft will be the issue in the future. And since Java is on the OpenGL side, to some extent, the future of Java also depends on the winner of this war.
My .2.
Cheers.
Sylvia Wang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 10, 2001
Posts: 53
I don't think Linux will replace Windows in Desktop, it's just unreasonable to replace it, peoples used to windows, and don't talk about the costs, efforts to replace it ... that's the reason bill is rich.
how many of u paste/view the message to this site from a non-windows OS ?
any other technology industry is so changable like IT? and so dependend on the outcome of some business men's fighting?
Karthik Guru
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 1209
Originally posted by Sylvia Wang:
any other technology industry is so changable like IT? and so dependend on the outcome of some business men's fighting?
[/B]

it just struck me.
a nice read , for those who have'nt gone through this,
that it c'd be one of the reasons for 2 companies to fight a law suit and that it c'd lead to the design of a new language!.
www.javasoft.com/docs/white/delegates.html
karthik.
Gokhan Gultekin
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Posts: 27
Well i think it is a bit early to talk like that...It is ofcourse not possible for people who can only use MSOffice to switch to Linux. And ur right the transition is not that easy but then why is Microsoft so afraid of OpenGL and the executives of Microsoft is trying to put it down everyday in the press. Because they think it is a threat for them..there is huge support for OpenGL from big companies which hate Microsoft. So it will be really interesting to see what will happen..
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Gokhan Gultekin:
And ur right the transition is not that easy but then why is Microsoft so afraid of OpenGL and the executives of Microsoft is trying to put it down everyday in the press.

Actually what you are referring to is open source, not OpenGL. Open source refers to the free software movement where that software is licensed in such a way that (depending on the exact license used, such as the GPL) it allows you to use someone else's code to build your application, but the license may then require that you freely distribute your application as well. There are actually several open source licenses, but the Gnu Public License (GPL) is often the one that Microsoft attacks.
OpenGL on the other hand is simply a graphics API. When I referred to it in my previous post I probably should have used Motif as an example instead.
If you want more specific information about the open source software movement, there are some good resources at http://www.osdn.com/history/ as well as http://www.gnu.org/ .
Gokhan Gultekin
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 23, 2001
Posts: 27
Thanks Jason for correcting me. Actually what I tried to mention was also open source. A stupid mistake.
Cheers, Gokhan
Andrew Shafer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 19, 2001
Posts: 338

I visit this site using a non-MS OS 99% of the time.


!_I_Know_Kung_Fu_!
John M. Gabriele
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 18, 2001
Posts: 232
> Open source refers to the free software movement where...
of course, note that the open source movement and the free software movement are 2 distinct movements. these are in stark contrast to the bowel movement by the way. gnu and the gpl is all about free software. java and opengl are more about open source.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by john gabriele:
> Open source refers to the free software movement where...
of course, note that the open source movement and the free software movement are 2 distinct movements. these are in stark contrast to the bowel movement by the way. gnu and the gpl is all about free software. java and opengl are more about open source.

You are most correct sir. Open source does not necessarily mean free (although more often than not it does), and I should have been more specific. I stand corrected.
Now there's this tripe that MS wants to pull called shared-source. Ugh.
 
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