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Waiting for Beta

Pratap koritala
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 252
Hello all,

I worked very hard for SCJP and SCWCD, over one and half a year. I've seen people getting scjp title without doing anything. You must be knowing what I am talking. Now, I feel like a fool .

I've given up further intrest on giving Certifications. I don't want the titles where people are getting by very little work i.e mugging up minutes before the exam. I don't get what kind of satisfaction they get by doing this.

I wanted to give Beta Exam where the exam judges your true potential. Even I want to pay for that.

Is there any Beta for SCJP,SCWCD,SCBCD,SCDJWS?
Marcus Green
arch rival
Rancher

Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
You shouldn't believe everything you read. Many, many people do not pass the exams at first attempt and anyone who says their complete study time was measured in a a few minutes is simply lying. Believe me this is a topic I have been tracking very, very closely for 10 years.


SCWCD: Online Course, 50,000+ words and 200+ questions
http://www.examulator.com/moodle/course/view.php?id=5&topic=all
Pratap koritala
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 252
If GRE,GMAT can be conducted so strictly and confidentially,Why not IT CERTIFICATIONS.

GRE,GMAT DATABASE of questions changes every 15-20 days, and its database is huge. Thats how GRE Score has true value.


What about IT Certifications, why Microsoft and Sun not bothered about this?

They can sue the companies selling the questions..... or increase amount of questions and change the questions periodically.
Pratap koritala
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 252
MARCUS,
Its true that a guy who don't what is java can pass SCJP with 2 hrs of preparation. After all, if you know the exam questions you don't need to know java.
[ May 22, 2008: Message edited by: Pratap Chowdary ]
Marcus Green
arch rival
Rancher

Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
"Its true that a guy who don't what is java can pass SCJP with 2 hrs of preparation. After all, if you know the exam questions you don't need to know java."

So in the very unlikely event that someone has exact copies of the real questions (A situation I have not seen any reliable confirmation has happened)

This person would be able to memorise the format and correct answers of several hundred questions? I note that the reference has now gone from minutes to hours.

A more likely scenario is that someone has what they think are real questions, but are in face unreliably memorised versions of exam questions which are more likely to mislead than inform. The reference to brain dumps both annoys and amuses me as they are seen as a shortcut for the dishonest but are frequently innaccurate and unhelpful.
[ May 22, 2008: Message edited by: Marcus Green ]
Ivan Ivanic
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 31, 2007
Posts: 100
do not get so upset. If you learned for so long you should know how hard is to cheat on this exams...
I failed first time i did SCJP so i know that this things that you are saying are hard to be true.
Can you give us some more clues about what happened, that made so mad?
Best regards,
Ivan


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Marcus Green
arch rival
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Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
The Lawyers who are employed by Sun take these issues very seriously. Many years ago I got a letter from them about something appearing on my own web site. Getting a letter from a multi billion dollar corporation was quite alarming, and I wasn't in any way attempting to cheat or breach copyright.
Ivan Ivanic
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 31, 2007
Posts: 100
I know I got pretty edgy from time to time while I was preparing, but do not let such stupidities bounce you from rails.
Why do you think that some Beta coming from same source would be more legal???
Pratap koritala
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 252
As you know, a new exam will be put in beta before making publicly available.

So,the chances of cheating in Beta Exams are very less.
[ May 22, 2008: Message edited by: Pratap Chowdary ]
Pratap koritala
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 252
Ok,Marcus
I know a person who is going to appear for SCJP.I asked him,"how did you prepare ?"
He said,"Na!,whats the need to prepare,All the questions come from this set (he shown a set of printouts i.e TK)"

He even given reference of his friend score......

Marcus,Iam a fan of you.., your mock exams,exam notes etc

Now tell what you can do to that person..?
Marcus Green
arch rival
Rancher

Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
Could you explain what you mean by TK? My initial reaction is that many people claim to have "real questions", but in the past they have not turned out to quite as real as they claim.
Marcus Green
arch rival
Rancher

Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
By the way, I'm not saying that it is impossible that some people have collections of "genuine" questions, just that in the last 10 years I have not seen evidence of anyone collecting a significant number of accurate questions.
Deepak Bala
Bartender

Joined: Feb 24, 2006
Posts: 6657
    
    5

Originally posted by Marcus Green:
By the way, I'm not saying that it is impossible that some people have collections of "genuine" questions, just that in the last 10 years I have not seen evidence of anyone collecting a significant number of accurate questions.


I will have to disagree with that. I have seen several occasions where people have the exact questions. I agree with the point that the database needs to be much larger.

SCJP 1.4 has absolutely no credibility. I have seen so many cheat on this exam that I have developed a prejudice about anyone who wants to take SCJP 1.4.

The Lawyers who are employed by Sun take these issues very seriously. Many years ago I got a letter from them about something appearing on my own web site. Getting a letter from a multi billion dollar corporation was quite alarming, and I wasn't in any way attempting to cheat or breach copyright.


I wonder what they are doing about the web sites that are openly claiming and selling real exams. Marcus, out of curiosity what was the offending content they complained about ? If you or Sun are unaware about where this stems from, send me a private message.

I worked very hard for SCJP and SCWCD, over one and half a year. I've seen people getting scjp title without doing anything. You must be knowing what I am talking. Now, I feel like a fool [pissed] .


These people will look very foolish in an interview. Its easy to separate the cheaters from the real deal. Read for the certifications and pass them. Its not the title that matters. Its the journey.


SCJP 6 articles - SCJP 5/6 mock exams - More SCJP Mocks
Marcus Green
arch rival
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Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
"I will have to disagree with that. I have seen several occasions where people have the exact questions."

I can only quote from my own experience. However in the (distant) passed some folks suggested that some of my own exam questions (I had made up from scratch by myself) were "real", they definitly were not, if I had seen an similar "real" question I would have changed it to be signficantly different. So I developed a considerable scepticism about the "reality" of questions.

Having said that, my experience as a teacher has shown me that most people who cheat are very, very easy to spot as frauds.
[ May 22, 2008: Message edited by: Marcus Green ]
Deepak Bala
Bartender

Joined: Feb 24, 2006
Posts: 6657
    
    5

However in the (distant) passed some folks suggested that some of my own exam questions (I had made up from scratch by myself) were "real", they definitly were not


That is quite understandable. I think that also explains Sun's email to you

So I developed a considerable scepticism about the "reality" of questions.


I was talking about people who intentionally were on the lookout for such real questions and printed material that had these real questions. What surprises me is why Sun or even Microsoft are unable to stop these people. It really does devalue a certification.
Jesper de Jong
Java Cowboy
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Posts: 13875
    
  10

There are, unfortunately, people who distribute illegally copied questions from the SCJP exam - even worse, there are people who are trying to sell illegally copied questions from the SCJP exam.

On JavaRanch, we absolutely do not allow such illegal activities, and that's one of the reasons that people must always quote their sources when they post a question from a book or mock exam.

I think that if you know nothing about Java and you'd study a list of illegally copied questions two hours before the exam, you are very likely to fail the exam. The questions that you get on the exam are not fixed - they are selected from a large pool of questions. It's impossible to know all of the questions that you get on the exam.

Please do not cheat by using or distributing illegally copied materials, and if you do come across such materials, then please contact Sun so that they can do something about it - this is in your own interest, because you don't want the value of your SCJP certificate to degrade.

And as John says above: No IT company hires programmers only because they have an SCJP certificate. Any candidate who knows nothing about Java and cheated themselves into a certificate will very quickly make a fool of himself in a job interview.
[ May 22, 2008: Message edited by: Jesper Young ]

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Marcus Green
arch rival
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Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
"That is quite understandable. I think that also explains Sun's email to you"

No they were chasing someone else who had posted on my web site (or I would have been even more annoyed).

For me the key for the setters of exams to prevent memorisation is to create large numbers of questions, i.e. more like 1,000 questions than a few hundred. The trouble is it takes a great deal of hard work.
Deepak Bala
Bartender

Joined: Feb 24, 2006
Posts: 6657
    
    5

For me the key for the setters of exams to prevent memorisation is to create large numbers of questions, i.e. more like 1,000 questions than a few hundred. The trouble is it takes a great deal of hard work.


I couldnt agree more. I would like a reliable database to have about 3k questions but like you say its hard work. At some point in time something has to be done to prevent this cheating.
Pratap koritala
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 27, 2006
Posts: 252
Why it is not possible to sue those sites...

Getting the list of sites is just a google search with right keyword.The major site doing this is TEST KING.

I think SUN better chase these gaint sites rather than a single user who posted some content.
[ May 22, 2008: Message edited by: Pratap Chowdary ]
Marcus Green
arch rival
Rancher

Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
3K questions is not reasonably doable. I have found the tracking of feedback on around 400 questions to be a huge task. It is amazing how much mis-interpretation happens with what appears to be clear questions. At first I tend to think "how could you possibly put that interpretation on the question" and then after a little thought I realise that such an interpretation is reasonable and get on with clarifying the question. Over the years I have received and worked through many thousands of feedback items. Of course Sun has more resources than a lone obsessive like me, but around 1K questions would do the job nicely.

I agree, they should be more aggressive in chasing the cheats and fraudsters, and as eve Google is our friend. Hmmm, perhaps they could create a position and appoint me as "Cheatfinder General"

For those who are unaware of my questions here is a little commercial...

www.examulator.com/phezam
 
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