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Entry Level Position Wanted

Brad Malia
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 29, 2001
Posts: 4
I have just graduated this May with a IS degree and I have discovered something that I'm calling the 2 year wall and I wanted to share this with everyone. Entry Level java jobs are no longer actually entry level anymore. The competition is so tight right now for jobs, that people who have 2+ years experience in programming are setteling for entry level job positions. So, unless you have that 2 years experience, then you better have some good networking, otherwise you might as well start flipping burgers. A 4 year degree doesn't seem to amount for squat in the IT industry anymore. Last year, companies may have had 6 or 7 applicants for entry level positions where as now, they get around 30-40 which makes the competition really stiff without someone on the inside pushing your name in.
If you're an experienced programmer, keep your job! Don't quit thinking you can easily find another job, because things have changed.
If you're an inexperienced programme, keep trying! I'm in the same boat, and I know it really hurts when you know you're plenty qualified for a position and did really well in the interview but hear this "we went with someone who had 3 years experience". I've been through 8 interviews since I graduated. This is crazy. Remember the good ol days (last december) when everyone was getting multiple offers and could pick and choose? Well.. now we're going to have to jump at the first offer we get!
Is there anybody out there who will actually hire entry level people and tell the experienced people that they are too over qualified? If so, there is a very talented Java programmer right here who has a lot of potential and is waiting for your reply.
Cheers,
Brad Malia
ersin eser
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2001
Posts: 1072
well just don't give up.
I have a technical school degree in IT field + college degree from unrelated field . I got a job at my very first interview and it is Java related . And the company is kind enough to send me ( entry level ) to J2ME training
Just don't wait, go for it.
Brad Malia
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 29, 2001
Posts: 4
When did all this take place? "The Wall" went up about 6 months ago.
What do you mean "go for it"? I've done applied to hundreds of jobs.
Originally posted by ersin eser:
well just don't give up.
I have a technical school degree in IT field + college degree from unrelated field . I got a job at my very first interview and it is Java related . And the company is kind enough to send me ( entry level ) to J2ME training
Just don't wait, go for it.

Bill Compton
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 186
This is an excellent topic for (and belongs in) the Jobs Discussion forum. I'll move the topic there.
On this subject, the "foot in the door" problem can be quite challenging. Networking (a friend on the inside) has always been a helpful strategy. Another is gaining experience in unpaid avenues. This is not always as good as paid experience (and, in the meantime, you have to buy the groceries!) but working on volunteer projects, (source forge has some ambitious projects) and research / self-training projects, especially toward applications/applets you can donate to the public domain (see jars.com) help, too. Finally, persistence is key.
William Barnes
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 16, 2001
Posts: 986

Brad - I would be inclined to agree with everything you say. But at the same time it is a very general statement. The US is a big country and some areas might have more demand for programmers. In addition we have lots of people from India posting here, which is a totally different job market.

Please ignore post, I have no idea what I am talking about.
John M. Gabriele
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 18, 2001
Posts: 232
Brad,
How about going back to school for a master's degree until the market heats up again? While in school, you can usually postpone school loan payments and you may actually be able to get a stipend if you TA.
Yeah, I know this isn't a real option if you actually need a real income to get by.
ersin eser
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2001
Posts: 1072
I got my job mid May almost June and was looking for one about a week ; May be I was lucky.
Well applying for 100's of jobs is not the main issue ; Do a search for John Coxey 's posts here; those are very informative.
Do you follow up ? Are you sending out targeted applications or sending out few hundred of them at a given time? I read a book called "60 seconds and you are hired " it is an excellent book you might want to read it .
Buzz Andersen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 28, 2001
Posts: 54
Don't worry Brad--you're not alone. I personally am having a very difficult time in this market as well. The only piece of advice I would have is to be open to contract work if you aren't already--in this climate, companies have lost workers due to layoffs but still have the same needs, which means that they are using more contract labor. Even the contract jobs are pretty competitive though--the recruiters I've been talking to say that they go extremely quickly .
Also, don't blow off your resume (as I initially did) and make darn sure that your interview skills are stellar. I made the mistake of underestimating the importance of these two things, and blew more than a few excellent opportunities because of it! The days where anti-social techies could waltz into high-paying jobs while flouting the "rules of the game" are gone!
Buzz Andersen
- Sun Certified Programmer for the Java 2 Platform
Mike Sasin
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 31, 2001
Posts: 6
Your story would be very good news for me if not for the slow economy. I also did the unrelated degree + tech school = (hopefully) something equivalent to a B.S. in CS. I have been trying to sell the "other" skills gained in my former profession; no luck yet.
Originally posted by ersin eser:
well just don't give up.
I have a technical school degree in IT field + college degree from unrelated field . I got a job at my very first interview and it is Java related . And the company is kind enough to send me ( entry level ) to J2ME training
Just don't wait, go for it.


------------------
Peter Lyons
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 12, 2000
Posts: 202
When you say you've applied for hundreds of jobs, in what sense did you "apply?" Did you send e-mail a resume and wait for the calls to come, or were you more proactive. I can understand getting frustrated with the process, but I can't understand why you'd talk like you're gonna just give up. That's not even an option, is it?
Sure things change, but that doesn't mean there's no jobs to be found. I am convinced that the only reason I landed my present job is because I did all the calling myself. Of the hundred or so companies I sent resumes to, one called me; offering a COBOL job. The place I'm at now was a referral from a recruiter at another company (whom I called, and could not place me, so I asked for the referrals). To get the interview I probably called a dozen times. Keep at it.
 
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subject: Entry Level Position Wanted