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Certified Developer (96%) with Oracle skills and a degree ... not even entry level ?

Karl Fu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 26, 2001
Posts: 41
I have passed my Developer exam 3 months ago with a good score (96%) and held a Bachelor degree in Info Tech. Other than 2 years of Core Java experience, I also have knowledge in many components including RMI, JDBC, Serlvets, as well as good knowledge of SQL, Oracle 8i, PL/SQL and some accounting background ( I was in Commerce & Business Admin program for 2 years)
I always think that Java and Oracle would make a pwoerful combination of skills, therefore I am also taking some part time courses to improve my skills in Oracle Form and report, as well as skills in database administration.
For the last 9 months, I have been doing my certifications, upgrading myself and seeking for a entry level job in either the States and in Canada. Money is not a concern ...location is not a concern ... I am just seeking any position that can get me started.
The result ?? As you can expect..was an mailbox filled automated reply and refusal emails.
Money is running out and even daily expenses are getting more difficult to afford. (students loans, rents, food, etc)
I don't know if I should try something else. If I left this field, I am afraid I will get outdated very soon and couldn't have a chance to come back. This is something I really enjoy and I don't wanta give up. But what about living ? I am working part time as a Java Tutor ( 1.5 year ), but now I started to begin thinking that if I should continue. Working as a tutor is not going help me to gain any professionalism (because I don't wanta be an instrutor or prof)
Any suggestion ?
Also, please kindly let me know if there is any opportunity around.

Karl
Sun Certified Developer
Sun Cerfitied Programmer
karlfu78@yahoo.com
Buzz Andersen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 28, 2001
Posts: 54
Originally posted by Karl Fu:

I don't know if I should try something else. If I left this field, I am afraid I will get outdated very soon and couldn't have a chance to come back.


Karl,
At least you can take some comfort in the fact that you are not alone. Some of the more senior people posting to this board may give you the impression that things aren't that bad and that if you're having trouble you simply aren't looking/trying hard enough. Don't believe it.
The bottom line is that there are *tons* of highly qualified people with *years* of experience looking for jobs right now, and you and I simply can not compete. I recently had a phone screen for what looked like a very promising Java position here in Colorado, only to be informed by the HR person that she was overwhelmed by 70+ resumes in the space of a couple of days! With my few years of experience, I'd say my odds of competing are pretty slim!
As for your question about getting back into programming after being forced out of it for awhile, this is something I'm highly concerned about myself. I don't know what to tell you. My personal idea is that I am going to make plans to go back to school and get a MS, and then hopefully come out in a recovered economy more qualified than before!
The most important thing, though, is to keep in mind that you're not alone in your frustration!
Buzz Andersen, SCJP
frank davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
Things are not only bad, they're worse than everyone thinks. See http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.real.html
ARS Kumar
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 22, 2000
Posts: 108
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.real.html - is full of lies !
-ARSKumar.

ARS Kumar, Sun Certified Programmer for Java 2 Platform
http://www.automatedsqa.com/
shashank bapat
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 69
Originally posted by herb slocomb:
Things are not only bad, they're worse than everyone thinks. See http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.real.html

herb,
It seems that the link u have given is not correct. I think the server name is not �heather.cs.ucdavis.edu� but is �HATRED.cs.ucdavis.edu�

------------------
-Shashank
MS(CS),BS(CS),SCJP2


-Shashank<BR>MS(CS),BS(CS),SCJP2
frank davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
Which are lies ? Be a little more detailed in your answer. This is the reason we have discussion boards. I'm willing to listen to anyone with facts. No need to accuse someone of hatred without any substantiation. please give substantiation.
shashank bapat
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 69
Originally posted by herb slocomb:
Which are lies ? Be a little more detailed in your answer. This is the reason we have discussion boards. I'm willing to listen to anyone with facts. No need to accuse someone of hatred without any substantiation. please give substantiation.

When someone posts that link on discussion with subject "Certified Developer (96%) with Oracle skills and a degree ... not even entry level ?"
HATRED is the word for it.
Thanks
Shashank
frank davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
Your ludicrous response does not even merit an answer.
[This message has been edited by herb slocomb (edited September 13, 2001).]
shashank bapat
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 69
Originally posted by herb slocomb:
again your ludicrous repsonse does not merit an answer.

Still u DID answer that. Now that's illogical.
But it's OK. I can understand hatred is always illogical.
Brandon Hill
Greenhorn

Joined: May 18, 2001
Posts: 20
Originally posted by shashank bapat:
When someone posts that link on discussion with subject "Certified Developer (96%) with Oracle skills and a degree ... not even entry level ?"
HATRED is the word for it.
Thanks
Shashank

Your comment doesn't make sense. Did you even consider that a certified developer w/Oracle skills and a BS can't get a job?
shashank bapat
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 69
Originally posted by Brandon Hill:
Your comment doesn't make sense. Did you even consider that a certified developer w/Oracle skills and a BS can't get a job?

Yes, I have MS(CS), BS(CS) and w/o job for 2 months. The link says something to the effect H1B is taking ur jobs And thus I have more reason to say that I dont think that link is relevant here. Because if I get the job it will be due to better qualification though u will conveniently try to see it as due to my being H1B.
Thanks
------------------
-Shashank
MS(CS),BS(CS),SCJP2
frank davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
THe URL actually makes a number of points besides the one which Shashank mentions. He does not have facts to dispute them, so he flings around the term "hatred"...
By the way, getting the job doesn't mean you are more qualified than others since many companies are not too accurrate in determining who is the best. Sometimes cost is too much of a factor in their decision making and they ignore the greater productivity of an experienced programmer.
[This message has been edited by herb slocomb (edited September 14, 2001).]
griffith jones
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 18
Shasank:
A couple of observations:
Asian H1B candidates are definitely not the object of "hate", although I have heard some reservations voiced about the scale of the H1B program.
The H1B program is a temporary work program to fill a short-term skill deficit, when US citizens are not available. No foreign national is entitled to a job in the US, any more than US citizens are entitled to jobs in, say, Bangalore.
By law, US citizens have priority over H1B visa holders. This is implicit in the H1B program - you must have been aware of this when you applied ...
Griffith
Ashwin Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 17, 2000
Posts: 124
If you agree that US citizens have a priority over h1b visa holders for jobs, then how can you blame H1B visa holders for snatching your jobs ?
Food for thought .....
Ashwin.

Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
U.S. citizens are supposed to have priority, but they do not. That was the point that was being made.
shashank bapat your throwing around the word hatred when you don't agree with what is said is irresponsible. Not only do you owe herb slocomb an apology, you owe all of JavaRanch one.
Originally posted by Ashwin Desai:
If you agree that US citizens have a priority over h1b visa holders for jobs, then how can you blame H1B visa holders for snatching your jobs ?
Food for thought .....
Ashwin.

shashank bapat
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 69
Originally posted by Chris Thibault:
U.S. citizens are supposed to have priority, but they do not. That was the point that was being made.
shashank bapat your throwing around the word hatred when you don't agree with what is said is irresponsible. Not only do you owe herb slocomb an apology, you owe all of JavaRanch one.

A.> herb slocomb posted same link in 4 threads. That IS "hatred".
B.> "Karl Fu" Who started the thread had never said anything about H1B. Who knows? he himself may be H1B or F1B. So how that link is relevant?
C.> Who are u seeking an apology on behalf of JavaRanch?
Thanks

------------------
-Shashank
MS(CS),BS(CS),SCJP2
Ashwin Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 17, 2000
Posts: 124
U.S. citizens are supposed to have priority, but they do not. That was the point that was being made
I don't know what more of a 'priority' or special treatment are you expecting.
- You can change jobs at will and do not have to wait for the 2 months to get some documents endorsed.
- You do not have to pay social security taxes for someone whom you do not even know and without availing of them later in your life.
- You do not have a restriction of doing just one job, leave alone the fact that it should be connected with your field of specialization.
- You can AT LEAST survive without a job with the unemployment insurance that the government provides.
And lots more....
And I agree that you should be able to avail of these facilities just for the simple reason that you are a citizen of this country.
But, if you still think that you are not given 'priority', I would suggest that instead of cribbing about it here, you could fight it out with the governmental body that decides it. I believe that would at least yield some results.
Ashwin.
[This message has been edited by Ashwin Desai (edited September 14, 2001).]
krishna anand
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 21, 2001
Posts: 61
Dear Friends
Enough of this acrimony over H1B /Job Scenario in US.
We have to be very clear that every country / industry takes action according to what is suitable and cost effective for it during that time .No body is interested indoing social service by providing jobs to others .Everybody is interested in seeing how best they can make use of the others .This is the hard core way business is being done whether we like it or not .There was a time during the Y2K Crisis , a massive demand of Software Professionals and since the same could be met in a very cost effective manner from countries like India etc there was a lot of demand for Software Professionals from India but not after the Y2K Crisis is over and also after the dot-com bubble burst the I.T Job scenario has highly shrunk and definitely the Compaines in US would like to hire only the US citizens .So this is a very hard time for H1B professionals and they have to realize that the market scenario is very much changed and that they cannot expect to be treated in the same way as during the boom period .How much ever you may throw your anger in these forums ,it is not going to give you any jobs .Accept the reality and see alternative ways to secure yourself a Job .
Wishing you all the best in getting good jobs.
------------------
Krishna


Krishna
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
I was not saying anything about the advantages/disadvantages of being a citizen, if you read, I was pointing out the intent of the link posted and that it was information, not hatred.
shashank bapat, as a member of this community, I have the right to ask for an apology on behalf of this group. You have determined what can and can not be posted in any particular thread. You have determined that posting a link in more than one place is hatred. This will be my last reply to anything you have to say. Your irrational and aggresive postings are not worthy of any response from any intelligent person. Others have disagreed with what was posted in those links without being offensive. You should try to learn from them.
Originally posted by Ashwin Desai:

I don't know what more of a 'priority' or special treatment are you expecting.

[This message has been edited by Ashwin Desai (edited September 14, 2001).]

shashank bapat
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 69
Originally posted by Chris Thibault:
U.S. citizens are supposed to have priority, but they do not.

Originally posted by Chris Thibault:
I was not saying anything about the advantages/disadvantages of being a citizen. ... Your irrational and aggresive postings are not worthy of any response from any intelligent person.

Chris Thibault,
You are really rational and intelligent person, as can be seen above. So please don't reply.
Thanks

------------------
-Shashank
MS(CS),BS(CS),SCJP2
Karl Fu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 26, 2001
Posts: 41
I don't have anything to against H1B. I started this thread because I was hoping to get some advises to my current situation.
And I have never mentioned or imply my situation have anything to do work H1B worker. I don't know why this thread went out of the topic and have targeted to the H1B workers.
I don't think and will not blame the H1B for my current situation. My problem is lack of experience and I am well aware of that. I want to find a way to change this situation and improve myself.
I am neither a H1B or US citizen, rather, I am a Canadian and lives in Toronto. In Canada, there are many workers holding working permit like the H1B in the states.
I think H1Bs or other work permit holders contributes to country as much as the local workers. It is very not considerated to say H1B take away all the job opportunities....
When the economy is doing well, everybody got a good job and we hire H1B 's all over the world to make use of their expertise..
When the economy is going down, how can you treated them like trash and say all these "mean" words about them? Saying this is very selfish and inconsiderate. Of course, given the economic situtation like now, we surely cannot import H1B or other work permit holder without limit like we were before. However, for those who have already been working here and had contributed to the country, we should treat them fairly and with respect just like every one else.
They face the same situation just like us. (layoffs)
** Please do not use anyone as scapegoat and transfer our anxiety to blame on others. **

Karl
shashank bapat
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 69
Karl Fu,
Thanks for being bold and speaking up. Onus of apology is now on Chris Thibault, herb slocomb and jasonkosowan. But they are not civilized enough to apologize.
I opposed. I tried to tell them to discuss their issues in a separate thread. Discuss at one place. Not to disturb other people with other issues. They thought that I am the sole voice against them and they tried to shut me off by using illogical arguments. But now u have proved it beyond doubt that I was correct.
Also thanks to Ashwin for the timely support.
Posting irrelevant stuff in 10 different threads to seek attention is similar in nature to blasting 10 bombs to kill innocent people to seek attention. Just on a smaller scale.
This is a victory of rational, intelligent, hard working, civilized people over lazy, dumb, irrational, ignorant, racist, fanatic people with terrorist tendencies who spread nothing but HATRED.
Yes, I was aggressive and still am. Because I have learned a lesson that these fanatic people who spread hatred should be dealt with aggressively. If u let the time pass by to take action against such fanatic people; they think "u are weak, they are right and they are winning" ... Do I need to tell u what follows? Because we just experienced it on much larger scale.
-Shashank
Originally posted by Karl Fu:
I don't have anything to against H1B. I started this thread because I was hoping to get some advises to my current situation.
And I have never mentioned or imply my situation have anything to do work H1B worker. I don't know why this thread went out of the topic and have targeted to the H1B workers.
I don't think and will not blame the H1B for my current situation. My problem is lack of experience and I am well aware of that. I want to find a way to change this situation and improve myself.
I am neither a H1B or US citizen, rather, I am a Canadian and lives in Toronto. In Canada, there are many workers holding working permit like the H1B in the states.
I think H1Bs or other work permit holders contributes to country as much as the local workers. It is very not considerated to say H1B take away all the job opportunities....
When the economy is doing well, everybody got a good job and we hire H1B 's all over the world to make use of their expertise..
When the economy is going down, how can you treated them like trash and say all these "mean" words about them? Saying this is very selfish and inconsiderate. Of course, given the economic situtation like now, we surely cannot import H1B or other work permit holder without limit like we were before. However, for those who have already been working here and had contributed to the country, we should treat them fairly and with respect just like every one else.
They face the same situation just like us. (layoffs)
** Please do not use anyone as scapegoat and transfer our anxiety to blame on others. **

Karl

Rich Hertz
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 17, 2001
Posts: 4
Shashank,
I think everyone here but you sees that you're the only person with the hate problem. I suggest you speak with a mental health care professional about this.
This is a message board for people looking to discuss the Java job market. If you keep posting inflammatory and insulting messages here, the sheriffs will just begin to delete them (I'd hope!).
//----------------
Karl,
No serious poster here is "treating H1-B's like trash" or saying mean words about them. Please think more carefully before you post.
//----------------
Ashwin,
This is America. We are American citizens and the discussion here seems to be revolving around American companies. You can expect the situation for foreign (non-U.S. citizens) workers in this country to be very different from the situation for U.S. citizens.
//-------------
Ashwin Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 17, 2000
Posts: 124

You can expect the situation for foreign (non-U.S. citizens) workers in this country to be very different from the situation for U.S. citizens.

Rich,
I never questioned it and agree with you on the above. In fact, it was not me but a few of your fellow "American citizens" who do not seem to agree.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
U.S. citizens are supposed to have priority, but they do not.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I am just trying to make these guys realize just that.
- Ashwin.

[This message has been edited by Ashwin Desai (edited September 17, 2001).]
shashank bapat
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 69
Originally posted by Rich Hertz:
This is America.

Rich Hertz,
A> Thread Subject "Certified Developer (96%) with Oracle skills and a degree ... not even entry level?": Has nothing to do with H1B.
B> Karl Fu is from Canada and not from America. H1B is NOT his problem. He wanted to discuss other things till herb came along and without checking if its related he started his H1B discussion. He did that in FOUR other threads. So don't bother Karl with your Anti-H1B campaign or else sheriff will/should delete YOUR messages.
C> This is NOT America. This is cyberspace. And forum has messages about Jobs in Canada, Australia, India, China and many other countries(Maps of which u have never bothered to see) Any broad minded american will/should feel ashamed about you.
D> Congrats!! You are just added to the list of people like Chris who use rational arguments as follows:
Originally posted by Chris Thibault:
U.S. citizens are supposed to have priority, but they do not.
Originally posted by Chris Thibault:
I was not saying anything about the advantages/disadvantages of being a citizen.

--------
ALL,
You must (at least should) have noted by now that almost ALL the "knowledgeable" people who are opposing us don't even know if they should claim that US citizens do have priority or if they should claim otherwise. If you dont know about the problem, please don't post.
They don't know that other people can have other problems that are more important than H1B. They are opposing us just because they �assume� we are saying something against America. Please don't argue just because we are non-Americans. (I hope u know the difference between non-Americans and Anti-Americans.)
To Anyone willing to reply,
I repeat my basic questions, which I have asked in all the threads that herb tried to spoil with H1B discussion.
How is the link relevant? That is �how is the link posted by herb relates to Karl Fu's problems?� Is it a civilized behavior to post same message in 4 threads without checking its relevance?
If you don't have answers to these questions which, I am asking tenth time and all the people who replied so far are conveniently avoiding; don't take trouble, as it's not your game.
-Shashank
[This message has been edited by shashank bapat (edited September 18, 2001).]
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by shashank bapat:
--------
I repeat my basic questions, which I have asked in all the threads that herb tried to spoil with H1B discussion.
How is the link relevant? That is �how is the link posted by herb relates to Karl Fu's problems?� Is it a civilized behavior to post same message in 4 threads without checking its relevance?
If you don't have answers to these questions which, I am asking tenth time and all the people who replied so far are [b]conveniently avoiding
; don't take trouble, as it's not your game.
-Shashank
[This message has been edited by shashank bapat (edited September 18, 2001).][/B]

How was that link related? Well having actually read the entire thread, read the contents of the link, and being able to logically follow a conversation, let me try to explain to you how it is related.
To paraphrase the original poster, Karl, he has stated that he has a good bit of education, and some although not alot of experience. He has mentioned that he has been applying for jobs but either getting refusals or no reply. He asks a general question about whether or not he should continue to seek a job as a Java developer.
The next poster, Buzz, tells Karl that he is not alone in his experiences and many people, even those who are experienced who you wouldn't think should have problem finding employment, are finding it hard to get a job. He expresses concern that the employment situation in IT is so bad recently and that he feels he can't compete with the many people who are applying for what seems to be suddenly a limited amount of jobs.
Herb then replies to Buzz's post with a link that addresses Buzz's concerns about why he may not be able to compete, and why the jobs may be limited. Among the possible reasons the article gives for why people like Buzz and Karl are having difficulties finding a job are exaggerated requirements, ageism, and cheap foreign labor. I also believe that Herb assumed Karl and Buzz were possibly Americans, which makes the article more relevant to their situation.
Personally I think the article has several valid points. It cannot be denied that the industry uses grossly exaggerated job requirement, and it cannot be denied that ageism is rampant. This should be a great concern for all job seekers who may be having difficulty finding employment. The other more controversial point the article states as to why people like Buzz and Karl MAY be having difficulty finding employment is that there lately seems to be a preference in hiring cheaper imported temporary labor over more expensive domestic permanent labor.
So now I ask you, how does that article NOT apply to people who are having difficulty finding a software developer job in the US? Just because you don't happen to agree with something is no reason to be spreading hatred and ignorance around. It seems clear enough how that article does apply to the questions raised in the beginning of this thread. So since the article is clearly relevant to this discussion, it is possible that it is relevant to the other places he posted the link, although I have not read those threads so will not comment further. Also that article has many valid points which US software developers should be aware of, which may also be his point in repeatedly posting the link.
On a personal note, you should really relax man, you keep stressing out like that you will begin to have health problems.
Rich Hertz
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 17, 2001
Posts: 4
A> Thread Subject "Certified Developer (96%) with Oracle skills and a degree ... not even entry level?": Has nothing to do with H1B.
The original poster mentioned he was searching for a job in either the US or Canada. The H1B program is relevant in the US.
B> Karl Fu is from Canada and not from America. H1B is NOT his problem.
See Above.
C> This is NOT America. This is cyberspace.
I was, of course, referring to Ashwin's comments regarding US citizen's priority for US jobs in relation to H1B's priority.
D> Congrats!! You are just added to the list of people like Chris ...
Great. Chris sounds like a smart guy.
To Anyone willing to reply,
I repeat my basic questions, which I have asked in all the threads that herb tried to spoil with H1B discussion.
How is the link relevant? That is �how is the link posted by herb relates to Karl Fu's problems?�

Again, refer to my response to item ">A" above.
shashank bapat
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 69
Jason Menard,
After a long time, good to see unusually sound response from someone, not written just for the sake of opposing. So thanks for that.
"I also believe that Herb assumed Karl and Buzz were possibly Americans, which makes the article more relevant to their situation."- Just imagine the situation that already frustrated Karl were on H1B visa (herb did not know his status). He 'll feel so great after reading herbs post!! Was herb's intention addressing Karl's problems or discussing his own?
The reason I still disagree with you (about the relevance of the link not about its contents) is none of the problems addressed by the link are Karl's problems. The link talks about problems in getting jobs which makes it relevant to ALL the threads in job discussion in some sense.
And where it was relevant (some �Hatred for H1B� thread NOT started by me) I discussed it properly in that thread (will paste it below). I also suggested that if someone wants to discuss these problems then he should rather make a separate thread. I still think that my stand was very correct. It's not a good idea to declare anonymous inner class with �same logic� at 10 places.
One point you forgot to mention in your summary is, Ashwin did his bit to do meaningful discussion instead of taking confrontational approach. What was the outcome? There were at least 4 different people that Ashwin discussed with NONE of them had any idea what Ashwin wants to say. He had to tell again and again.
BTW, I am not stressed at all. I had already got the job and I was just waiting for my H1B approval (again) so that I could start work.(which is more frustrating than finding the job). Salary, is really good (Note to UC Davis guy to update his statistics - more than 2 1/2 times avg american's income). All this writing was just to help in GRE and any other similar tests that I would have ended up taking if planes had crashed on my last hopes of getting job. Otherwise, who cares for H1erB et al as long as I get the job
--------------------------
Rich Hertz,
A.>You have �intelligently� copied Jason's answer, which I already discussed with him.
B.> see A
C> In herb's words "Good that you realize that this is not america". Never say never die
btw, Did u do the extra points sub questions about �Americans do or do not have the priority?�. Due tomorrow (in separate thread please)
D>U r on ur way to a Grand Slam. Keep it up.
Unnumbered> See A.
----------
Just for ur ref. from other thread In case u think I did not discuss the link. Fact is none of the US citizens discussed it beyond �H1B is the cause of all evil including WTC� - Yes, one guy did refer to WTC.
�Herb,

Though I think this discussion should have separate thread. Let me be little accommodative here and answer your questions
YES, on most counts. But then its ur gov. ur industry ur laws. Sorry, I can only sympathize. I have my right to vote in India not in US. So I can only give you outsider's view on this.
Unfortunately for u; USA is capitalist economy. And it is very proud about that and they may be right or wrong in being proud capitalist. I saw some discussion about �American Workers�, �Unionization� etc. (Again in irrelevant thread.) Yes you can do that and dream about further steps like renaming �US of A� to �USSR of A�. I don't see it coming thru.
This is global economy and if US stops H1B these foreign workers will consider Canada, Japan, Germany as their options and economy of these countries will benefit. And if that option closes they will go back to their countries and start working there. Because no matter how much u guys try to deny, they have Skills. Countries like Taiwan are built by such reverse brain drain.
Countries like India, china will benefit a lot if US cancels H1B. But Indian and Chinese individual H1B workers will have lot to lose if that happens. On the contrary, US industry, economy and hence the nation will suffer if H1B is cancelled. But individual American tech workers will gain.
If u are under impression that industry will hire Americans at higher salary if H1B program is stopped then I think that's an illusion. They will start development centers in India, China and Israel and save money that way. This is the reality of global economy. Now I don't have solution. U want to keep economy open and and take all the benefits of that and then u don't want competition?? Today u r trying to say no to H1B's tomorrow u may try to force the industry to use �Made in America� software which will cost much higher than something made in India or china(That's what I mean by USSR of A)
[This message has been edited by shashank bapat (edited September 19, 2001).]
Rich Hertz
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 17, 2001
Posts: 4
A.>You have �intelligently� copied Jason's answer
yeah, yeah,.. near simultaneous post. I was writing, then was pulled away from my desk, then posted.
Sweet jebus, I can't believe this thread keeps going and going. It's like an un-funny snl skit that just keeps pounding on the same joke.
shashank, please respond to this post by spewing another poorly-formatted 500-word essay. Oh, and make sure to keep using the letter u to mean "you" as well as r to mean "are". After all, I'd like to be as 'accommodative' as possible.

[This message has been edited by Rich Hertz (edited September 19, 2001).]
Jason Kosowan
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 25, 2001
Posts: 9
Ok, now that I've finally registered correctly, hopefully I will be off the sheriff's bad list...
Anyway, I haven't been to this discussion board in awhile, and now I come back only to find that my name is being slandered around the board. I think this is just terrible. What is wrong with you people? I just posted a couple of (what I thought were interesting) things, helped some people out on some technical issues, and now someone is demanding that I apologize to the group? What I'd like to know is "for what?!?!" What did I do?!?
IMHO, the conduct here is worse than anything I've seen in any discussion group before. Those people involved in this should be ashamed. Don't expect me back to these discussion forums anytime soon...
Gregory Garrison
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 05, 2001
Posts: 107
Interjecting at the risk of being involved with what has become a senseless squabble, this article was interesting and I thank you for posting it. If you read through the article you would have found in section 7.1 that there is still a demand for Java/C++ type developers. I think this article is candid and factual and take this comment to be as well. Living in the NY,NJ metro area and searching on Dice.com (as an example), these skills are still in demand. I understand that recruiting firms continually post bogus jobs for their databanks and that employers are more particular than before but most of the problem at this point is more about experience and experience in a specific business. So, unless you have experience or education in some sort of mathematics/bond trading systems/etc., (Just as an example) it becomes more difficult for the run-of-the-mill techie Java/C++ programmer to obtain work.
The economy will turn at some point - it almost did - and business will begin to spend again on that technical edge over others. Keep plugging away at the credentials and you will be in a prime position to benefit on the turn. Sorry I can't tell you what that point might be.
If we all energized to cooperation rather than distain the world would be a much better place.
Originally posted by shashank bapat:
herb,
It seems that the link u have given is not correct. I think the server name is not �heather.cs.ucdavis.edu� but is �HATRED.cs.ucdavis.edu�


Bartholemu Smith
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 08, 2001
Posts: 317
If I start a Donkey farm in the US can I apply for a H1-B Visa? Or maybe a TN-1 Visa since I am Canadian?
I am trying to raise VC for my Farm and then I am moving my international headquarters to Albany NY.
Tom Hennigan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 25, 2001
Posts: 71
I only read the original post thororoughly. My advice to you would be to continue pumping out resumes on a least a dozen job-sites, continue reading about Web Services, J2EE, continue learning and practicing JSP, servlets, and EJB, and even start personally visiting as many project managers as you can. Use the reason that you are conducting research for a college report or programming assignment, try to schedule a half-hour interview. Should you score such an interview, invent a mock project that highlights your Java skills, and ask her/his approach, or how they handle such a challenge, then, gently suggest that you will be seeking employment soon, do they know of any openings, even for part-time or volunteer?
just a suggestion. Patience and many more resumes needed now than a year or so back.

Tom Hennigan<P>Sun Certified Java 2 Platform Programmer
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
subject: Certified Developer (96%) with Oracle skills and a degree ... not even entry level ?
 
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