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Entry Level before Recession?

Kevin Co
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 15, 2001
Posts: 14

I've been looking for a java job since June and I'm sure anyone who is in my SCJP but no experience shoes has noticed all jobs I've looked at say 2 years minimum experience and so forth. My question is, before this recession, has anyone seen Entry Level job postings in the local paper or at job web sites(or more than a couple at the same time)? I'm curious to see if there ever was entry level opportunities or was it always 2 years exp...blah blah blah. I look forward to your responses.
Kevin Cox
Bartholemu Smith
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 08, 2001
Posts: 317
There were some but very few from my experience.
The company I work for now hired serveral entry level Java developers. I feel fairly fortunate. Great company and people.
Just keep looking around, networking, and tell everyone you know what yo want to do. Remember you want a career not just a job. So it might take sometime and patients. Working your way up te ladder is part of that.
Hope that helps some what
Faze
vidhya subramaniam
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 14, 2001
Posts: 91
Hi,
i am also looking for an entry level job in java. faze, which company do u work for? r u in united states? i am looking for positions here in USA. relocation is also not a problem for me..
if someone comes across etry level positions please let us lknow..
John Coxey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 24, 2000
Posts: 503
Kevin:
Very rarely do you see companies in this field advertise for entry-level positions. I assume the fear of being overwhelmed with responses forces companies to post a 2 or 3 year minimum requirements list.
I essentially ignore the multiple years of experience requirements in the advertisement and send the outfit a resume anyway. Remember, if there are senior people on a project - you can be sure there is one or more junior level folks batting clean up. It's one of these junior level positions that you are shooting for.
I do believe that you will need a 4 year technical undergraduate degree before most US companies will talk to you. An 18 month tech school degree doesn't do the trick.
And yes, I also believe the good times will eventually return to the IT industry.
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)

John Coxey
Evansville, Indiana, USA
Kevin Co
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 15, 2001
Posts: 14
Hey John,
Thanks for responding, I've noticed a lot of people respect your opinion since I've started browsing the boards a short while ago, plus your last name is my nickname. I have a four year bachelors in Communications(I know, please don't remind me of how useless it is). But I've also taken night classes in Java, Visual Basic, C and C++. I'm a SJCP and I'm going to get a Microsoft Solution Certification(since I already know VB and those are two of the four tests I need to take right there, plus I could use SQL Server to beef up my Databases), but now I'm getting ready right now to take IBM's XML Certification. So if I have all that behind me plus my four year degree, doesnt that count for something since half of college is electives(Bio I and II, Psych, History...etc)?
Look forward to hearing your answer,
Kevin Cox
kimsy
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 5
Most job search sites (such as HotJob.com, Moster.com) don't post entry-level jobs. I believe those sites are for the experienced....
Even two years ago, when the economy was so good, I could hardly find any entry-level job postings on most of sites....
If you're fresh out of college and looking for entry-level positions, you have to go through your school's career services or resources....
I believe it's how most college graduates get a job...
Also, vidhya, if you are looking for entry-level position and need H-1 sponsorship, you're out of luck.... Not many companies are willing to sponsor entry-level programmer at this time...
Bartholemu Smith
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 08, 2001
Posts: 317
Originally posted by vidhya subramaniam:
Hi,
i am also looking for an entry level job in java. faze, which company do u work for? r u in united states? i am looking for positions here in USA. relocation is also not a problem for me..
if someone comes across etry level positions please let us lknow..


I am located in Canada, and the company I work for is called SIVCO Inc. We are in the process of applying for new contracts so who knows me may be hiring in the near future. We deal with Visual Age for Java, WebSphere, Db2, EJB's, Servlets, etc...Mainly IBM tools and products.
Looking for work is a job in its self. It can be hard but you have to do you best, and never give up.

[This message has been edited by Faisal Dosani (edited September 28, 2001).]
Kevin Co
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 15, 2001
Posts: 14
Hey Faze,
You say you work with WebSphere and Visual Age, I was wondering, I've seen a lot of companies asking for knowlege in those products to work with Java, did you know how to use them before you were hired or did the company teach you how to use them?
Kevin Cox
steb steb
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 29, 2001
Posts: 4
Originally posted by Kevin Co:

My question is, before this recession, has anyone seen Entry Level job postings in the local paper or at job web sites(or more than a couple at the same time)?

Absolutely. I've been with companies who'd hire anyone able to write "Hello World!" program in Java. Or even spell "Java". That was in 98-99.
Sylvester Saloon
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 31, 2001
Posts: 24
There are very few (if any at all) job ads on the Internet and papers specifying entry level positions.
You have to compete with those with 1 to 3 years experience. Difficult, but I have seen it done!!! Kevin what you have to show is you can do the job. Why not show this by creating a solid architecturally sound enterprise level project. In that project show by means of working code, your understanding of key technologies the prospective company is looking for (eg. database connectivity with Oracle, servlet/jsp, beans, xml-soap, sockets). Try to achieve good design that has attributes of resuability, encapsulation, etc. -- an objected oriented approach.
Note: unlike your preparation for scjp2, where for the purposes of the exam you had to write thousands of lines of code and a multitude of classes that had not direct relation with each other; here you must unify it under the objectives of your project. You sound intelligent to me, and I believe you can do it.
I hope the above will give you a fighting chance. It worked for me, I hope it does for you.
Bartholemu Smith
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 08, 2001
Posts: 317
Kevin,
The trade school I went to after my Computer Science degree taught Visual Age, and Db2. After doing that I went for my Java cert. I didnt really know websphere, but to be honest if you really want to you can learn anything.
I watched some videos about the IBM products when I was hired on. It was a good learning tool but just playing around and knowing stuff from school helped out.
Are you interested in working with IBM products? They work really well together. Easy to use also.
Have you guys watched Zoolander... You have to watch it. It's so FUNNY!!! Stupid Funny if you like that kind of stuff.
Dhaval Patel
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 02, 2001
Posts: 7
Hi Faisal,
I am also from canada, & right now learning VAJ & WAS 3.5.3 Adv. Edition. I am looking for a job too. I read yr article it really made me feel good, If you have details of company looking for VAJ/WAS professional please tell me. I am also willing to relocate.
Regards
Dhaval Patel.
SCJP2
Kevin Co
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 15, 2001
Posts: 14
Sly, Thanks for the advice and encouragement...Kevin Cox
John Coxey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 24, 2000
Posts: 503
Kevin:
Been in Colorado this weekend on a different computer and did not notice your reply until I got back to Philly this morning.
Your degree counts for something - combine that with a few certifications (SCJP,SCJD,XML,UML) and you should be getting a lead here and then.
Be sure to focus your resume though, towards the technology side and away from the Communications side. If you have done technical work in Communications then that's fine - but stay away from the more liberal arts type descriptions.
If you have never done an internship or college tech project - then you may need to get a help-desk type position with the possibility of moving into a development field. The college degree plus the certifications will set you apart from the other people in a help-desk type department.
The help-desk experience will enable you to find problems with the software and then it will be your initiative to go ahead and try to solve the problem and creating/coding a possible solution. Perhaps you can present your solution to your boss and the development team.
If nothing else. You can now put on your resume that you assumed a development role to solve a problem. Now you have experience - even if the production support outfit won't recognize it.
Also, you may try to get the production support company to pay for some college classes or other training. Any training/education will help advance your career and it gives you something else to put on your resume and also b.s. about during the interview.
----------
Also, you may want to consider going for the MS-Comp Sci degree. You will probably need 60 credits - given the non-technical background in Communications. Perhaps you should consider this option as well. Better yet, get the production support outfit to pay for part or all of it.

Look at a community college c.s. program. The goal being to grab an internship/co-op/project through the college. I know that a community college certificate doesn't mean squat - but the fact that you did an internship with EDS or Lockheed Martin will scream out on the resume.
It will also show initiative - and dedication. And will help you answer those ever so present managerial type interview questions.
It's now 5:00PM here in New Joisey - gotta run.
John Coxey
(jpcoxey@aol.com)
 
 
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