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Frustrated and bitter after 6 months

Rupali Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 42
hi,
I thought I would share my experience I had with a recruiter,perhaps you will make some sense of it , as I could not.So here goes the story,
I am came across this posting for JSP developer on dice in mid Sep(in Sacramento about 100 miles from my place).the pay is not much..but I am looking for some experience and that's ok with me.
I sent in my resume to this recruiter(R-1).After which he sends me some questionnaire I respond and then he sends me an email asking me to go to this place(recruiter 2 : R-2) for some screening interview.he says they will give me some test and I should be in and out in 15 mins.I go (about a 100 miles drive).There was some spelling test , R2 asks me some questions, I answer and she says she will definitely get me an interview in about 2 weeks.I say fine.I come home call up R-1 he says R-2 was impressed and that I will be their prime candidate when the company calls for interview.
At end of 2 weeks no response, so I call up first R-2 she cuts me off and says that she will get me an interview in 2 weeks.Later I call R-1 he says there are expecting a round of interviews soon, probably because of Sept 11 they are holding off.I can understand that.This continues until last week. When on Monday afternoon I receive a call asking me whether I can interview the next day,I say yes.She says that she will call back and confirm. I receive no communication till 3.30 p.m. so I call back, both R-1 and R-2 are out of office so i leave a message. No one returns my call .So I wait for a day and call R-1.He says on Monday he was out of office ...and on Tuesday R-2 told him that she had sent me and some other guy for interview and they picked the other guy(he was some internal reference).I tell him what has happened..he tells me that he will talk to R-2 and try to find out what has happened.Till today I haven't heard from him.
The frustration of not finding a job is bad enough and to top it you have such experiences.
So at the end of 6 months of my job search I am frustrated and with no hope and don't know how to proceed from here.
-R
[This message has been edited by rup desai (edited November 05, 2001).]
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Sorry to hear about your bad experience. The fact is many recruiters act like stereotypical "used car saleman", no loyalty, except to the money.
I've worked with dozens of recruiters, on both saides of the equation. Unless you've established a good working relationship with one over time, don't trust them to be looking for your bets interest. Don't wait for them to call, you call them. Don't believe them when they say "you'll be our primary candidate," unless you know them and trust them.
Unfortunately, they have no reason to be faithful to you, unless they think they can make some money off of you.
One more tip. Often, the recruiter becomes a middleman. After a company agrees to interview me, I prefer to deal directly with the company, in terms fo scheduling the time, etc. It takes too long when it has to go through a middleman. Some recruiters get offended by this, because they feel like you're cutting them out of the picture. Make sure they feel included. CC them on all emails, and call them after the interview to let them know how it went (it's kind of like dating in HS, whe you would tell a friend how it went, and she would tell her friends, and eventually the information gets back to each party). Also, if you're not good at negotiating, they may be helpful to bring back into a primary role here (although remember that most are more concerned about their relationship with the company, then their relationship with you).
Bottom line, sit back and expect the recruiters to do the work for you. Many shouldn't be taken at their word. This is not true of all of them. There are good ones; bu my experiences have been more negative than positive.
Ask on the ranch if anyone knows any good recruiters in the area? (First search for a thread like that in this forum, I think there was one a year ago).
Good luck.

--Mark
Patrick Wang
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 20
I have about the same experience with you.
Drove 100 miles to Sacrementa for an interview, get called on
Monday asking if I can interview tomorrow. Then no answer...
The recruiter company is APPLEONE if I am not mistaken.
You are not alone.

Rupali Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 29, 2001
Posts: 42
hi patrick,
Yes the company is appleone.Are you also an entry level candidate and live in the bay area.Maybe we can then share information inour jobserach.
-R
[This message has been edited by rup desai (edited November 05, 2001).]
Sreenivasa Majji
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 12, 2001
Posts: 224
Thank you guys for providing the company name. I am living in Bay area. Now I knew what to do if I get a call from AppletOne.
Originally posted by rup desai:
Yes the company is appleone.Are you also an entry level candidate and live in the bay area.Maybe we can then share information inour jobserach.


------------------
Sreenivasa Kumar Majji
Sun Certified Java Programmer
SCJP Mock Test


Sreenivasa Majji
Rich Brockway
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 25, 2001
Posts: 34
I have a recruiting horror story to share. Several years ago, a former co-worker contacted me. He said his current client was looking to bring in another developer. He recommended his boss interview me.
When I went in to interview, it went very smoothly. He told me later in the day they wanted to bring me in. I asked my friend what would be a fair hourly rate. After a brief discussion, we came to what we thought was fair rate. Next, he informed me I needed to use one of the approved consulting companies. He stated he wanted to throw some business to the consulting company he was working for. I agreed. He contacted the company and gave them the details of the situation.
Next, the consulting company sent one of their sales representatives down to talk to the manager. This person, who never met me, said I was solely interested in money. He said he would like to have the manager interview candidates from his agency. What an idiot!
If we had not contacted him, he never would have had an opportunity to make a buck. We gave him a very easy job. All he had to do was go in and get the documents signed. Instead, he screwed me over.
If this had happened recently, I would have taken the consulting company to court for their blatant slanderous remarks, which cost me the contract. I may or may not have recouped the money I lost. However, it would have been nice to soil the consulting company's reputation.
Rich
[This message has been edited by Rich Brockway (edited November 11, 2001).]
Mark Thaler
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 09, 2003
Posts: 1
I am currently going through a horrible situation with AppleOne (1/9/03) and below is the body text of the letter I'm mailing to the VP and also cc'd to the CEO today:
This letter is to inform you of my great disappointment with the way AppleOne treats their employees, with regard to its paycheck policies.
By now, I am sure that you are aware of who I am, through Lindsay Clark. For the week ending December 28, 2002, my timecard for hours worked at West Coast Yellow Pages, was never picked-up from the drop-box in your downstairs lobby, which had been dropped off by an extremely trustworthy professional of this office on Monday, December 30. True, I admit that I may be in the wrong for not having dropped it off myself. However, my timecard was indeed dropped off in San Mateo in plenty of time before the payroll cut-off.
When I arrived at your office on Friday, January 3, 2003 at 12:00 PM, I was informed that there was no paycheck for me and I had explained to Lindsay about the timecard being dropped off and when it was dropped off. She then proceeded to lie to my face, telling me that the drop-box was checked and that there were no timecards in the box. She even went as far as to try to prove me wrong, by grabbing the keys to the drop-box and going downstairs to see. When she returned, in her hand was not only my timecard that was allegedly �not there�, but also the timecards of at least five or six other employees. In an effort not to look bad, Lindsay continued to lie to me, becoming absorbed in the �blame game�, instead of making any effort to try and correct the situation.
I then explained to her that because we don�t get paid for holidays, that finances are incredibly though for me right now, and that I am dependant on every last dollar, that I didn�t have gas enough to get to and from my assignment every week, not even enough to get lunch that day and that I had bills I had sent out checks for the day before. She then went ahead and told me that �that wasn�t their problem�. This is true, however, I would expect the company that I work for to at least show sympathy, understand how trying these times are for many of us and perhaps, even make a slight effort to try to get a check cut for me. Instead, all I was fed were a bunch of lies and excuses and in the long run, I am now overdrawn $40 in my checking account and I have 3 bills that are unpaid, which will result in an even higher amount of money being overdrawn in my account during this week.
I was also told then and during later conversations, that you would not authorize a check to be cut, no matter what the situation and no matter how badly it was needed. This, I cannot understand for the life of me. This sort of behavior and treatment is uncalled for and I am a lot more than disgusted with the fact that your company thinks that little of its employees, in that it doesn�t even matter to you that maybe everything in your employees� lives may be dependant on each and every paycheck and that not everyone has someone or something to fall back on.
My financial situation in the past year has been at its worst state, due to medical bills from over one year ago that I am still struggling to pay off every month, from a hospitalization for an infection that nearly killed me. Now, because of AppleOne�s ignorance and inconsiderate behaviors and actions, I am now in a deeper financial rut that I was in before and still, I have to wait until this Friday to get paid. Yes, that would be tomorrow and yes, I can have a little more security once I do receive my check(s) at noon then, but that still does not correct the fact that the irresponsibility and ignorance of your associates has caused me greater financial hardship.
I know that you could probably care less about any of what I am saying, according to the answers that you are apparently giving to Lindsay, which she in turn, gives me when I nearly beg for the money which is owed to me. The person that she projects you to be is a cold and inconsiderate �human being� who could care less about the well-being of those working for you, paying your bills, putting food on your table and whatever else. I am not here to make small-minded remarks and say the things that I am tempted to say out of anger and hurt, but I will say that it is up to you, if I am wrong in the way that I see you as a hierarchy of AppleOne, to change this sort of situation.
Furthermore, while I would not be immature and unprofessional to �bad mouth� your company, I would never, under any circumstances, recommend someone to seek employment with your offices and I would encourage anyone asking my advice on where to find employment, to go elsewhere. I have also worked under Adecco, for over two years, in fact and in all that time, they never once did to me, what your company has done to me. Had they not been in such a slow period during the time that I went to AppleOne, I would have stayed with them, strictly.
Having said all of this, I will now close this letter and will hope that you will someday learn how to treat your employees and also learn to care for their well-being. Good day.
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

Do understand that many recruiters are pure middlemen. They do not themselves have a need for technical resources, period; what they do is go and find a potential client, and bring you to that client. They may do some screening work themselves. but it's often the case that there's no actual project manager behind them, so the interviewing may be off-the-cuff, the technical questions may be ones that have passed around for years.
On top of all of that, the recruiter is simply trying to exloit people "who could use the experience" to widen the gap between what a client company is paying and what the recruiter will pay the techie.
The key evidence here is just how territorial a recruiter becomes when you ask "who's the client?" If they say "we're not comfortable disclosing that just yet," you should interpret that any way you like. But if they start to dance around any straight answer at all, go with your instincts. If they're uncomfortable with a direct question, it's a sure sign of inexperience or trying to run a scenario they know no one wants to hear (i.e., client company is paying $100/hour, techie gets $30/hour.)
You can always tell an inexperienced contract technical resource by the way, with just a few questions or statements. Being a middleman is a pure game of who knows what and who doesn't about the business -- just like buying a car.
I'm not in the business of screwing both sides for as many dollars as possible, so my take on this part of my business is real different. I will often tell a prospective contractor "I make my reputation by paying on time" to see their response. If they show no interest, I know they're new at this; getting paid on time isn't a given in contract work.
Often times a recruiter is doing what I do but on a more primitive level: they know the name of someone you don't, or they're very good at combing through dice or monster, or they simply know how to squeeze contact information out of other people and try to jump on it by banging the phones better than the next guy. That's *all* that work really is, by the way: banging on the phones and trying to develop leads. Pure sales work, and like pure salespeople, recruiters will command the lion's share of the income whenever possible. Most guys I know in that line of work won't work with anyone if they can't keep half or more of the action.
You should always find out if your recruiter simple knows someone you don't, or if they have an arrangement with their clients that would prevent you from going around them. You can't often subvert this process, but it will tell you if your recruiter is a hustler or has genuine working agreements with a long-term client. If it's the latter, go with it: the promise to you is actual work. If not, chances are your recruiter is just one or two steps ahead of you finding new clients, and they probably aren't going to do as much for you as you will for them.


Make visible what, without you, might perhaps never have been seen.
- Robert Bresson
Guennadiy VANIN
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 30, 2001
Posts: 898
Thank you to all for very useful information,
I really have never been thinking that it works in this, inacceptable to me, way.
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:
i.e., client company is paying $100/hour, techie gets $30/hour.)

Wow. This really hurts. I thought that recruiter receives agreed money, disappears from horizon and then I start getting salary from employer.
What is the logic for employer to support under-payment of its worker? or hide this information from the worker? supporting the robbery.
Marilyn de Queiroz
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 22, 2000
Posts: 9047
    
  10
Originally posted by yidanneuG ninaV:
I thought that recruiter receives agreed money, disappears from horizon and then I start getting salary from employer.

It depends. If the recruiter is recruiting you for a permanent position, the scenario is as you say. On the other hand, if you are working for the recruiting company and they place you in another company, the company pays them and the recruiting company pays you a portion of what they receive.


JavaBeginnersFaq
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, and today is a gift; that's why they call it the present." Eleanor Roosevelt
Sheeraz Khan
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 03, 2003
Posts: 3
I worked in a recruitment firm before I left it and I can tell you that some of them are quite rude they will delete telephone numbers of candidates with out even listening to them...
They will just jump in joy once they convince the ppl that job market is bad ...so go for less salary ...I guess some of them have a deal that if the deal goes for less .. their share will stay the same
It just sickens me to see ppl like this exist in the world and I said it to the Manager's face.. before I left ..don't you know I am a developer how do you think I feel when you guys treat other developers like this....
The best part is their acting I mean they act as if they are your god father ..but as soon as they know the outcome of the deal.. well they will throug out the resume...
One day , a resume came in by mail seemingly it was a senior guy .. now a recruiter came up to mee laughing and joking about who would be dumb enough to send a typed resume!! and she threw it in the bin...
I pocked it up opened it seemed like a good candidate and I forwared it to the manager and I said I am a developer I know this guy is good ..give him a call and next thing you know that guy gets a position...but I mean ...its this attutude that I had to face in the recruitment firm that just drove me insane and then I thought what they heck I am building a scanning system for these ppl ...I mean final after completing my task I just left that place...I just have a feeling they will hit rock bottom or sonner or latter they will be on TV with some corporate scandle
Guennadiy VANIN
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 30, 2001
Posts: 898
Originally posted by Rich Brockway:
Next, he informed me I needed to use one of the approved consulting companies. He stated he wanted to throw some business to the consulting company he was working for. I agreed. He contacted the company and gave them the details of the situation.

I still cannot understand why companies are interested in intermediaries?
They are by definition to screw up direct relationships.
chad stevens
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 20, 2002
Posts: 88
Hello Rupali.
Have you ever seen those diet ads that sell supplements promising you to lose weight without exercise without knowing anything about your medical background? Same thing applys here. How can they say anyone is a prime candidate unless the client actually sees you and approves of your personality and appearance! There is no real perfect candidate for every person sees differently. A lot of companies hire the person who is less technical and has ambition and very good communication skills and not the one with the poor communication skills and very technical. I am not implying you can't communicate, I am illustrating that unless someone sees you that promise of perfect candidate is just a way to keep you hooked and not look elsewhere JUST in case you do get the job and they can make a few bucks off you. My advice is you have nothing now, but let's say you have 2 offers at the same time, don't disregard one because you think you are better for the other unless, you have both contract offers in writing. Then you choose and you have the right to do this, because, you wouldn't want to be left with none. It happened to me a while ago where one recruiter was pushing a job for me in a finacial institution. He was going to pay me a permanent salary a poor one and through contacts I have there, I know what I would be billed at, 3 times my salary! He said I was the ideal candidate. I had an offer elsewhere. I didn't hesitate to take the other offer. A few months later, I found out that the finicial institution wasn't ready to hire since they weren't going ahead with the project yet. I had already waited a month. Had I not taken the other one I wouldn't have been home!
 
It is sorta covered in the JavaRanch Style Guide.
 
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