What do employers want

I see a lot of posts with people asking what knowledge/skills employers want and/or what key areas in Java should they study and learn in order to get a good job.
I have learned that the best way to find that out is to go on the web to www.monster.com or a similar site. Do a search for the job you want and look at the requirements.
As I did this, it became a very humbling experience for I realized it seems that I am not experienced enough for 99% of the jobs offered.
However, that doesn't always mean you won't get the job if you apply anyway. It does help you to see what is required though.

The truth is most employers are on a fishing expedition with regard to qualifications. This is especially true when labor exceeds demand. So you write out a huge wish list of things that would be useful to have in a potential employee, and end up choosing a candidate that comes closest to those, while fitting in with the culture of the company.
My advice is if your personal skill set and experience match at least some of what the employer is looking for, and the position sounds interesting to you, go ahead and apply anyway. It's true that with less experience or skills than what is asked, you run the risk that some other candidate is going to look better than you - on paper. That's where a good cover letter can really help get your foot in the door. Especially if you can convince the HR department of the company you are a motivated, hard worker willing to learn new things and eager to serve the company...that just might be good enough to get you a phone interview.
It never hurts to try!

Actually, I've found that most employers don't articulate what they want. The fact is particular knowledge of some technology will only get your foot in the door. You gain the job based on softer skills. Most companies just don't realize this, and/or that candidates will understand this, so they only list the hard skills.
--Mark

I would agree re: not articulate, mostly because most employers don't know what they want. Unless the manager has a strong and relatively recent development background, they'll probably come up with an add that has buzzwords dropped in from some Gartner article on new hot technologies.
Try thinking in terms of 'what do I want from an employer?'. The potential employee has as much right to be looking for something (beyond the obvious paycheck) as the potential employer.

I agree with Reid, most of them probably read an article highlight some words then make a want ad out of it. This past sunday I saw an ad in a paper for a programmer with 3+ years .net experience.
I guess they'll never find out that the person they hire with that much experience is a liar

I think that the 'bogus' requirements especially occur at lower levels of the employment scale. I have seen numerous adds for jr. developers looking for 5+ years of experience in multiple languages. I think that in many cases the employer is doing just what Rob suggested: cast a line out and see what bites.

My brother hires for a company where the HR manager says "if someone actually met all the requirements we shoot for we couldn't afford them". So I agree with you folks.

My brother hires for a company where the HR manager says "if someone actually met all the requirements we shoot for we couldn't afford them". So I agree with you folks.

I don't understand. Then how do they find anybody? Then all possible candidates are highly "underqualified" or taking a humongous salary cut.

It's a wishlist approach, a company lists for many things and gets about 2/3 to 1/2 what they ask for. The first question they ask is how much do you want to be paid. This filters out applicants they cannot afford. What they're hoping (I'm guessing)for is someone desparate enough to accept their meager salary.
On a side note this HR person prided herself on getting anyone to state a figure for how much they think they are worth. Can't say I liked her much.

Originally posted by Reid M. Pinchback:
I would agree re: not articulate, mostly because most employers don't know what they want. Unless the manager has a strong and relatively recent development background, they'll probably come up with an add that has buzzwords dropped in from some Gartner article on new hot technologies.

Funny, I think it;s the exact opposite. Although I think many software managers are poor, the ones who are promoted for being good engineers are usually worst. Development and management are two very different skill sets, which are rarely found in the same person.
--Mark

Reminds me of the Dilbert Principle: People are promoted until they find something they are not good at and there they stay. (I think Scott Adams ripped this off somewhere)

No, I think the Dilbert Principle was based on "All people are idiots, even me".
I think you're referning to the Peter Principle, where you get promoted to your 'least level of incompetence'. (I hope its called that, thats what I think its called, but then.... see the Dilbert Principle)
Regarding the skills list: I agree that its more management than technical driven. We once had a job advertised which included 'must have COBBA experience'. Not a proud moment.

Gentlemen, I had a few relevant posts here (read my last 3 posts), about HR and hiring:
http://www.coderanch.com/t/27230/Jobs/careers/Thousands-Java-Jobs-Available
I disagree with this so called Peter Principal about "incompetence". Unless someone can define "competence"... I generally believe a person can do any job ( see http://www.whitehouse.gov for instance

) given enough time and (a key here) putting enough effort. Some people have certain strengths that they exploit to advance in their career, but most usually settle for a level well BELOW their abilities.
The other reason against it is that position ladder is usually a pyramid, and a lot fewer positions are available on higher levels. And people usually see things one-sided (like you never thought you'd do a better job than a coach of your favourite sport team

).
Technical skills are so different from Managerial skills, and the step of moving your most experienced techie into Manmagement position so obvious, that this rarely works right.
I am going to start new thread about advancing a career, you are all invited.
[edit: changed beyond to BELOW; changes sence drastically, doesn't it?

]
[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: Shura Balaganov ]

Originally posted by Shura Balaganov:
I generally believe a person can do any job ( see http://www.whitehouse.gov for instance ) given enough time and (a key here) putting enough effort.

I disagree. Even if you accept that, I think the limitations of time make it, for most purposes, impractical.
--Mark