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Why Java

Balaji Loganathan
author and deputy
Bartender

Joined: Jul 13, 2001
Posts: 3150
Hi all,
I had an opportunity to discuss with a Technical head of a very big organization.
I was strongly emphasizing him to use Java for their business.(their business carries very sensitive data which expects data integrity,Confidentiality,Non-repudiation and other blahs..)
I said u can use J2EE with either Solaris or Linux or something where u can achieve all ur reqts.
Here is his reply...
"Well u r asking me to use java,linux or solaris ..open platform,free of charge,open source...etc.,then I can ask some companies like IBM or Oracle to build a system for my reqt's and they will do so,but when its comes to support for Java who is there ??Sun is not giving full technical support or any one else.If i get some problem with Java or linux,I can't blame anybody or I can't bring Sun or Linux to Court and blame them for their products.If this is the case who wants java just for portablity and loosing my legal rights?? But if you take same with Microsoft products,they have full technical support,they are ready sign for any technical problem,and in any case I can bring Microsoft before Court if my applications goes wrong since their products is not free of charge"..

As I'm new this kind of negotiations ,I can't answer him. But this made to think positive abt microsoft and their products.Also the comments by Tom,Map,Mark for this Lets stop adding.. makes my thinking to go away from java.

To create a B2B in Microsoft site server takes exactly 15 minutes.I tested it,but with Java(J2EE),it will take 1 year for a java programmer.

I'm sure .NET will provide a easy IDE based solution for using XML instead all understanding 'n' number of tech listed by Map.

Is there any good C# tutorial,please give me the link. :-)

What u might have answered to him if u r in myplace ??

Regards
Balaji
Private message: Sorry for not keeping in pace for the past 1 week for ur replys.
[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: Balaji Loganathan ]
[ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]

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SJ Adnams
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 925
When in an interview do not start evangelical rants. Put over a balanced point of view, more than one way to crack an egg etc..
I doubt if anyone expects you to explain why linux is better than Solaris, why Oracle better than DB2, why Bitter better than Lager.
He would expect you to to put across a summation of there features, maybe a little history, when and where you may use the features they offer etc, etc. All in a coherent, concise and eloquent manner.
Reid M. Pinchback
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 25, 2002
Posts: 775
If I were in your place I'd wonder about a guy who is so focused on being able to blame and sue people. Besides, virtually every software license limits your ability to sue the vendor; you generally can't get damages beyond the purchase price of the software. If this guy was worth the position he has, he'd already know that.
On the support issue, who supports 'C' and 'C++'? It sure ain't AT&T. Languages are never really supported; particular tools that you pay money for are supported. You can get Java tool support from numerous companies (e.g. Inprise supports JBuilder, IBM supports its development suite based on Visual Age and WebSphere, etc.). Besides, there are many commercial organizations whose support stinks even when you do pay serious money.
As to which environment you should use, you do what any senior developer or architect does. Look at the business requirements, figure out the maintenance and integration issues over the life of the product, the processes that must support the work, the skills of the people who will be doing the work, etc., and make a reasonable judgement call. That is all anyone can do. If the work is being out-sourced, many of the major companies (the big consulting firms, Oracle, etc.) do work in Java or anything else you are willing to pay them for.
But step one is even more important: try to work for a boss who knows what they are doing.


Reid - SCJP2 (April 2002)
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
I generally agree with Reid's comments. It's not so much someone he can sue (although he may be mistakenly under the impression) it's more an issue of CYA (Cover Your Ass). Microsoft is a safe bet, it's the de facto standard. A places where CYA is prevalent, no one will ever get fired for going with MS, C/C++ and other de facto standards. Everything else represents a difference from the norm.
This is not a normal concept for software engineers. First, we like living on the edge and playing with new technologies. Second, we know technology has issues and we can't always be aware of them, just like we know that generally speaking we can't find all the bugs in our software.
Business people think differently. Despite the fact that there are thousands of external factors in business which can't be predicted, they are still quick to take credit for increased sales or other improvements. By the same token, they are the first to take cover when things turn sour. To this end, they play a game called cover your ass.
Am I generalizing? Of course. Business people aren't all like this. But compared to most engineers, this is what it generally feels like. What I'm trying to say is you must understand that business folks think differently then we do.
--Mark
Balaji Loganathan
author and deputy
Bartender

Joined: Jul 13, 2001
Posts: 3150
You are right Reid.It make sense.
As told by Mark,I think most software engineer spend horrible time on explaning why we went for this Software to his businees mens or boss,whom in most of the case talks in other way.Not many java programmers are getting java boss.
Of course we can't choose a right boss
Reid M. Pinchback
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 25, 2002
Posts: 775
Originally posted by Balaji Loganathan:
Of course we can't choose a right boss

That definitely has to be the hardest part of job hunting. Having been burnt a couple of times I've gradually started developing my own list of things I try to find out during a job interview and when researching the company.
Unfortunately you can't ask people questions like "excuse me, could you please tell me if your boss is an ethically-challenged and/or incompetent jerk?". You have to look for bits of information indirectly and see how they add up. That still may not tell you what you needed to know before signing on, but at least if something goes wrong you can console yourself with the knowledge that you tried your best.
Of course, at the same time we have to work on our own skills (technical and non-technical) in the hopes of ensuring that *we* aren't the incompetent jerk when we become managers. I have to remind myself of that periodically.
Balaji Loganathan
author and deputy
Bartender

Joined: Jul 13, 2001
Posts: 3150
Originally posted by Reid M. Pinchback:

Of course, at the same time we have to work on our own skills (technical and non-technical) in the hopes of ensuring that *we* aren't the incompetent jerk when we become managers. I have to remind myself of that periodically.

Interesting!!
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Couple of things.
1) If you sign a contract with someone and you are big enough, you do not sign a "only damages are the cost of the software" contract. The company I was with always signed contracts that made companies liable for loss of business caused by defects in their software. You didn't like it? Tough... we'll go to your competition.
2) "Java" is not a product. It is a language. You sue Sun if you use their servers. You sue Webgain if you use their J2EE app server. If you go the Microsoft route, you don't sue MS because C# failed. You sue MS because their products cost you business.


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Shura Balaganov
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 22, 2002
Posts: 664
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
You sue MS because their products cost you business.

Good luck with that! How many people with money and power have tried suing MS and failed.
I don't think suing anyone will do the trick. You might sue consulting company that did customized development for ya... Other than that, I agree with Mark, it's CYA.
Souuuu... WHY JAVA?
Shura
[ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: Shura Balaganov ]

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