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This is getting to be ridiculous

Jim Baiter
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 05, 2001
Posts: 532
Here are some requirements for a developers job from a web ad:
The candidate must have demonstrated competency in software engineering methodology. Proficient in web development tools (ColdFusion, JAVA, etc.), ORACLE database design and administration. SAS Development will be a plus.******The job will be based here in San Diego, CA. It will be a team-based environment and will be reporting to a project manager. The required technical backgroud is as follows: B.S. in Computer Science, Biology, or other scientific disciplines. M.S. preferred. 3 to 5 years JAVA application development and other web development tools. Oracle database design and deployment expertise required. Excellent communication and presentation skills required. Experience with Oracle Developer, Web-deployed applications, LIMS, and working in a pharmaceutical or research environment strongly preferred. Knowledge of GLP and 21 CFR Part 11 regulations strongly preferred. SAS development experience a plus.Required atabase: Excel, Oracle. GUI/Development Tools: ActiveX, ASP, Cold Fusion, Developer 2000, JAVA, JBuilder, Visual BasicInternet Platforms: Java Servers, MS IIS, SQL Server, WEB Application Servers, WEB Logic ServersNetwork Architecture: ClientServer, Internet/IntranetNetwork Protocols: TCP/IP Operating System(s): Windows 2000, Windows NTProgram Languages: Java, JavaScript, SAS, VBA, VBScript, Visual Basic, Visual C++, XMLSoftware Packages: Microsoft Access, Excel, Outlook, Power Point, Project, Visio, Word, Oracle, Windows 2000Regulations 21 CFR Part llRequired Industry Experience: 2 Years(min)Education Level: Bachelors DegreeTechnical Education Discipline: Chemistry, Computer Science, Information SystemsDesired:Configuration Management: Tools ClearCase, SMS, VisualSourceSafe, ChangeMan, Clear QuestDatabase: Access, SQL ServerE-Commerce Applications: Ariba, Commerce OneEducation Level: Masters DegreeEducation Level Technical CertificationEnterprise SW: E-Commerce Software, Firewall SoftwareGUI/Development Tools: Oracle Developer, Visual C++, Visual Interdev, VJ++Intelligent Networking SW: End User Services SoftwareInternet Platforms: Apache Servers, Internet Information Servers, WebSphere ServersNetwork Architecture: Enterprise, LAN, WANNetwork Protocols: CSMA, X Protocol, X.25, XMLOperating System(s): ActiveX, Linux, Solaris, Unix - AT&T, Unix - DEC, Unix - HP, Unix - SCO, Unix:System VPreferred Business Experience: Drug Safety Evaluation, Pharmaceutical Sciences, Software Quality Assurance AuditsProfessional Testing Certifications: PMI, SQAProgram Languages C, C#, C++, Delphi, HTML, HTMLScript, Perl, PHP, PowerBuilder, UMLProject Management Specialties: Change Management, Project Documentation, Project Plan Execution/Task ManagementRegulations: GLPRequired Industry Experience: 3 YearsSoftware Packages: Interdev, Peoplesoft, Rational ReqPro, Rational RoseSystems Administration: DHCP, Driver Configuration, Internet Application Servers, Internet/Information Servers, Proxy Servers, User Group Mgmt.Technical Education Discipline: Quality and Reliability, Software Engineering, TelecommunicationsTesting Specialties: Integration Testing, Performance (load/stress) testing, System Testing, User Acceptance TestingPreferred Business Experience Computer System ValidationPreferred Business Experience Pharma CoKinetics, Dynamics and MetabolismPreferred Business Experience System Development Lifecycle
[ June 21, 2002: Message edited by: Jim Baiter ]
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Salary from $40,000
ersin eser
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2001
Posts: 1072
Few months ago I have seen something like this ad for NJ location. I have sent them the resume of Bin Laden ( that I have found on the internet ) and asked them whether they provide a cage and water? They got very very mad at me, called me racist (?) and they said that they will get in touch with Police and/or FBI if I disturbe them again.
I sent them an email and told them "Asking for a cage & water for this job description & requirements is not a racist remark and FBI would laugh at you"
After that I left them alone
martin samm
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 31
not the response of a normal person though, eh?


martin samm<BR>m_sam@rroom.net
frank davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
Obviously all those type of job postings, and I've seen more than a few(although not that bad),
are either from totally clueless HR people and/or someone up to some tricks with the immigration laws who will claim there is a tech shortage of qualified workers here in the US and that they need to hire more H1-Bs, etc because no one can fill the requirements for the ad. I believe advertising the position is one of the requirements of the law.
The stupidity and defensiveness of the "rascist" comment can help confirm both of the major assumptions above.
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
What a coincidence, that job description is exactly how my resume reads! :-) I $40k is my ideal salary. I can't wait to see what they say when I talk to them.
--Mark
Reid M. Pinchback
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 25, 2002
Posts: 775
From the job description obviously this is a position for a pharma or biotech, but whoever wrote up that list of requirements would have to be a complete moron. You aren't likely to get a programmer with even a large subset of those technical requirements who also has real GLP (good laboratory practices) experience. A programmer isn't a lab tech. A programmer also isn't a sysadmin or network tech. About the only things they don't ask for are a successful political career or having passed the bar exam.
I'm inclined to agree with Mark, this isn't a job ad you would write with the expectation of filling the position. It also indicates a biotech/pharma that doesn't understand their own finances. Salaries aren't the biggest cost. Delays in a project relative to patent expiry, and the cost of conducting clinical trials are the biggest financial hits. The hiring delay you would face in creating this kind of ad to justify getting somebody cheap on an H1B visa suggests that this is either a company filled with incompetents, or it is running out of money. Either way, I doubt you'd want to work for them.
[ June 23, 2002: Message edited by: Reid M. Pinchback ]

Reid - SCJP2 (April 2002)
John Fontana
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 28, 2002
Posts: 235
I would reply to the ad but my MS Word skills have faltered since I spent so much time with everything else.


www.websiteandsound.com
"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten."
Ken Sheppard
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 11, 2002
Posts: 4
All they will get are liars...I just read a job requesting 8 years of Java experience. I guess if you worked at sun in 1995 writing the 1.0 spec it's possible.
Reid M. Pinchback
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 25, 2002
Posts: 775
Naw, even easier. Combine years of experience in *drinking* Java with your years of experience of programming in it, and you are home free.
Guennadiy VANIN
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 30, 2001
Posts: 898
Originally posted by ersin eser:
I have sent them the resume of Bin Laden ( that I have found on the internet )

Hi, ersin,
I also in deep need of such resume (and I am not afraid of FBI). Can you mention a link to it or send that resume by Email?
PS i understood why nobody catches Bin Laden: it is because he is using his own ID
chad stevens
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 20, 2002
Posts: 88
Which company is that that posted that? What are they paying, 30,000US/yr for that?! Usually when companies ask for all that they pay nothing and no overtime paid either but lots of it to do!
Prakash Dwivedi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 28, 2002
Posts: 452
I once came across an ad(about an year ago), which was asking for a developer having 7 yrs exp in C#.


Prakash Dwivedi (SCJP2, SCWCD, SCBCD)
"Failure is not when you fall down, Its only when you don't get up again"
Guennadiy VANIN
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 30, 2001
Posts: 898
Originally posted by yidanneuG ninaV:

Hi, ersin,
I also in deep need of such resume (and I am not afraid of FBI). Can you mention a link to it or send that resume by Email?
PS i understood why nobody catches Bin Laden: it is because he is using his own ID
Harry Kong
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 06, 2002
Posts: 41
Originally posted by Prakash Dwivedi:
I once came across an ad(about an year ago), which was asking for a developer having 7 yrs exp in C#.


Seriously though, it is really getting ridiculous what the empoyers are asking. I have clicked through a few ads and what they are asking is quite impossible. Seems like they are looking for experts in every requirment that they list.
[ January 22, 2003: Message edited by: Harry Kong ]

SCJP 1.4
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
So let them. It doesn't harm you. If they can find someone who meets those criteria, fine. If they can't, they are penalized for being stupid.
--Mark
Tony Evans
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 29, 2002
Posts: 582
The annoying thing is when you meet the criteria and then watch it change.
Cheers Tony
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by Tony Evans:
The annoying thing is when you meet the criteria and then watch it change.

Depends....
Project requirements change, even in the best of companies. The question is how much change there is, how quickly it occurs, and hwo they deal with it.
If the position has been open 3 months, and by the time your resume gets there and you talk to them, but things have changed, and they never updated the ad (because engineering didn't communicate the changing needs, which came from marketing, to HR). Well, obviously communication would've been better, but this is pretty common.
If you mean that 6 months into the project what you do changes, well, again how much how fast and why? if you don't like nay change, you're in the wrong business. The only questions to ask is could someone have reasonably foreseen this change? If all of a sudeen portability to Linux is a big requirement, because a competitor just announced support for it, you can't reasonably expect your company to have expected that. On the other hand, if half way through the development cycle you switch databases because your manager thinks he can get a better deal with a new vendor and "a database is a database" well, that's something which could've been avoided or mitigated.
--Mark
Abadula Joshi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 126
This ad. may be designed to prove that a preselected candidate is the only suitable one. They can use this ad. to reject whoever applies.
 
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