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Jon Ellison

Joined: Jan 10, 2001
Posts: 19
This job is for Lead Developers... don't bother applying if you don't match the requirements perfectly... This recruiter doesn't want to waste your time and his...
I hate recruiters like this... I/you may fit 90% of the requirments but still aren't worthy of a look according to this guy.
NOTE TO RECRUITERS... Don't Hire DIPSTICKS like this to represent your firm.
Job Description
Telecom Client is looking for Lead Developers-(2-3 positions) Must have 7 years of Java, C++ Unix Applications development. 3 years of Team Lead
exp. Will be key interface to Project Manager and Clients Project Coordinator. Must be able to answer most of the questions from staff programmers.
7 years of Unix, Java, OOD, C++. GNU C++ compiler exp. Be able to set up sockets and database clients. Java JNI API's and techniques. REXX and OS/2 exp. Solaris experience and a BS in Computer Science. Ability to mentor, teach and work one on one with clients existing staff. AT&T or Lucent exp. A BIG+Additional Info - Must have excellent communications skills. Please send resumes only in word format to ANKUR@PINNACLE-SYS.COM PLEASE DON'T
Apply for this Job at:
This job is posted by Net-Temps, Inc. Search over 75,000 jobs, get your free Job Seekers Desktop, and free Resume submittal.

Jon Ellison<br />Java Developer at Large<br /> <br />-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----<br />Version: 3.1<br />GIT d- s: a+ C++ UA P+ L- E-- W+++ N++ o-- K- w+ O- M-- V-- PS--- PE+++ Y<br />PGP t++ 5 X+ R-- tv++ b DI+ D-- G e++ h---- r+++ y++++<br />------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Roseanne Zhang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 14, 2000
Posts: 1953
I'm glad to see at least some telecom is hiring. I've too many friends lost their jobs in telecom...
John Fontana
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 28, 2002
Posts: 235
Companies know that the market is in their favor now. This trend is disgusting and won't last forever.
7 years Java experience? Wouldn't you have had to develop the language with James Gosling to have that?
The best strategy is to ignore recruiters entirely. I've gotten three interviews this week, all went VERY well, and all were directly with the hiring company. Recruiters don't know technology well enough to be good at their jobs.
"If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten."
Alex Ayzin
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 10, 2001
Posts: 107
Originally posted by John Fontana:
I've gotten three interviews this week, all went VERY well, and all were directly with the hiring company.

How would you get an interview with hiring company directly -

Can yhou share that info, please.
Unemployed in NYC since 9/11.
John Fontana
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 28, 2002
Posts: 235
Originally posted by Alex Ayzin:

How would you get an interview with hiring company directly -

Can yhou share that info, please.
Unemployed in NYC since 9/11.

Nothing unusual...Dice, Monster, etc..I reply to any ad that looks like it matches my qualifications. It turns out that every once in a while, a company advertises directly instead of through a recruiter.
Alex, I find it kind of funny that recruiters are so prevalent that this concept would cause you confusion! When I was in a position to hire, I just dropped an ad on Monster, picked out a few resumes, and called people in for interviews. It's really not that hard. I found great people that way. A recruiter would have saved me maybe four hours of work, and cost my company huge amounts of money.
And I was able to make decisions that a recruiter could never assume....When I needed a Cold Fusion programmer, for instance, I knew that a skilled ASP or Java programmer might be a good fit. If they had a URL to their site and it showed some sense of humor, that was a bigger plus than a particular skill, because I knew it would be much more fun spending 40 hours a week with them.
I ended up with a crew that was so close, everyone stayed in touch long after the company closed down. I dare any recruiter to put together a team with that sort of dynamic.
Mark Herschberg

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
In fairness to the recruiter, I know many have been spammed by the unemployed hoping for anything. You regularly hear of postings getting thousands of resumes. He probably figured this would scare away the 40% matches but still get the 90% matches.
Frank Carver

Joined: Jan 07, 1999
Posts: 6920
Nah. It'll just piss off the 90% matches, and all the apply-for-anything stuff will still get through.

Read about me at ~ Raspberry Alpha Omega ~ Frank's Punchbarrel Blog
Scott Hajer

Joined: Jul 26, 2001
Posts: 29
Ideally, I bet the recruiter thought that Mark would be right. But in reality Frank is probably right. I bet that any 90% or 100% candidate who would apply to that posting would be really arrogant.

Scott Hajer<br />Manager<br />Pariveda Solutions<br /> <br /><a href="" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"></a><br /><a href="" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">My LinkedIn Profile</a><br /> <br />
Dan Chisholm
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 02, 2002
Posts: 1865
I agree with Frank. I wonder how many people applied for that job just out of spite.

Dan Chisholm<br />SCJP 1.4<br /> <br /><a href="" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Try my mock exam.</a>
Toby Davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 09, 2002
Posts: 65
<semi-related rant>
Several larger recruiting shops, who previously were very knowledgeable and good to work with in the late 90's, now take on a very arrogant stance.
I understand a recruiting or contracting firm being swamped with 1000's of resumes in this economy, and not having time to deal with individuals... but their arrogance is a bit infuriating now.
When calling a recruiter about a job posting (where they advertised a direct phone number for inquiries) to make sure I wasn't submitting a resume to the same client company, here's what happened (abridged):
Me: Hi, I'm calling about Job #XYZ0123.
Recruiter: What about it?
Me: Your position looks very interesting, but before I submit my resume, I wanted to be sure this wasn't for XXX Company...
Recruiter: Look, I don't know what company it's for. Why don't you just email the resume to our job bank address and see what happens?
Me: (Try to explain about how certain client companies don't like multiple submittals and disqualify you instantly)
Recruiter: Look, if you're not working, you need work, right? Just submit your resume and, if we get the chance, we'll look it over. We get too many resumes, and I don't have time to deal with your problem.
Me: Your posting said to call this number if I had questions...
Recruiter: Again, I can't help you. Submit the resume and see what happens.
I was disqualified from two positions because, from what I was told, the client had already received my resume from another recruiter and they dump those by policy.
Some recruiters usually understand this, and when they can't confirm they tell me about confidentiality, while others confirm with no problems... but the above conversation has occured with ironic similiarity with three major recruiters that I've worked with successfully in the near past.
If this sounds harsh, it's just a more extreme indicator of how less-than-helpful recruiters have been... even those I had a personal relationship with in the past. I won't get into stories about "exact descriptions" and "10 years of Java" and "skillsets required: Java, C++, VB, VB.Net, Fortran, UNIX, Windows, etc ad naseum" and so forth.
Ah, well, I guess it's one of the minefields of job searches... and since my wife's working I don't have the luxury of relocation anyway.
off my soap box now, thanks for tuning in.
[ August 22, 2002: Message edited by: Toby Davis ]

SCJP2 (1.4)
Wade Neuwirth

Joined: Aug 22, 2002
Posts: 2
I can't believe how similar the stories are. Most recruiter's I have had the *ahem pleasure of working with have been all about the $$$. Filling the positions.
I understand it is a tough maket out there right now. I am currently doing whatever possible to get income. I am not the most experienced guy I know some. I have 6 years IT experience. I know a lot of "basic" Java (Servlets, JSP, Javabeans), a lot about Oracle and RDBMS, mySQL, MS SQL, Perl and PHP, some networking, a little *NIX and I have built and managed a lot of websites. Have built servers before. I have a lot of support, management and implementation experience, and a few years of development experience.
I apply to only those positions that I meet 85% or better but I find it very difficult to get any sort of answers out of the recruiters. I am sure they must have several resumes a piece. I can't afford to NOT send out an application for a position that may well be a good fit.
When the market was a golden child...way back then...the problem I had was recruiter's trying anything to fill the positions. They tried to send me to interviews that I was not qualified for and when I started asking questions about the position they would say the same type of thing about 'confidentiality'. I once wad sent to an interview for an 'Oracle Developer'. When I got there the position was actually for an Oracle CRM Specialist. I used to write reports for Oracle Financials but I had no right even being there. Once I learned of this I politely explained that there had been a slight mistake and did not waste anyone's time. The recruiter would not return my calls after that.
You have to find the hidden job market, I believe. I always try to come up with 10 company names a day that have a website. (Just do a Google search for your area of expertise and location). You go through one by one and see what positions are open. I find I apply to way more jobs that way then by using those recruiters. People with web sites list their openings. I don't know any company I have worked for that didn't advertise openings in multiple places.
I stopped using newgroups for a while because I hated all the spam they leave behind.
With all these hi-tech recruiters you'd think they could all streamline their applications filter by now. :roll:

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