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Has C++ droped below Java in the workplace already?

Jon McDonald
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 02, 2001
Posts: 167
Hey all,
As I was doing my regular scan of monster and dice to see what recruiters were looking for I found some surprising (for me, at least) numbers when I looked at the number of job postings with certain keywords.
Dice:
Java 2618
C++ 1883
Java and C++ 732
Monster:
Java 3456
C++ 2453
Java and C++ 981
Wasn't it just last year that You could pretty much count on their being at least 50% more jobs in C++ than in Java? How far do you think this trend will go? Will C++ eventually be regulated to maintaining legacy code, and certain niche areas?
Admitedly C++ programmers may get paid more (I didn't check this time, but last time I checked they did). But for how long will that last? Just looking for everyone's thoughts on this.
Jon


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David Weitzman
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Joined: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 1365
C++ can't really become a legacy language unless a decent alternative is produced. Things like Java's platform independance/limited capabilities, the suckiness of Swing, Java's close association with Sun, etc., make Java inappropriate for many, many tasks.
Until people are writing operating systems in Java (if such a thing is really even possible), a lot of code written in C and C++ will be on every personal computer.
Fred Grott
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Joined: Oct 05, 2002
Posts: 346
Originally posted by David Weitzman:
C++ can't really become a legacy language unless a decent alternative is produced. Things like Java's platform independance/limited capabilities, the suckiness of Swing, Java's close association with Sun, etc., make Java inappropriate for many, many tasks.
Until people are writing operating systems in Java (if such a thing is really even possible), a lot of code written in C and C++ will be on every personal computer.

ah I shouold say that JavaOS does currently run in mobile devices.. speficially those using the ARMJ chip..
http://java.sun.com/pr/1997/feb/pr970211-01.html
In fact JavaOS is about 5 years odl and grwoing in mobile devices that use it..
Now what was that about Java cannot be used to write an operating system?


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David Weitzman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 1365
There's a reason no one has uttered the word javaos if 5 years. J2ME virtual machines tend to be written in C or lower level stuff, I believe.
Whatever happened to JOS, the open source Java operating system? It died. Actually they still do have a website up here.
Here's a project where they seem to translate Java into native code for execution. That may get partial credit I suppose.
The bottom line is that CPU's don't natively understand Java -- they natively understand machine code. There have been attempts to change that, but it hardly seems worth the trouble. There are other languages which a much better suited to low-level tasks.
Peewee Kochs
Greenhorn

Joined: Nov 26, 2002
Posts: 2
In my work we use Java 99% of the time. And the C++ guys i know can't work without the proprietary ide C++ builder - really pathetic. And i'm talking about guys with over 5 years C++ experience. Morons with a lot of programming "copy-paste" experience.
Yeah you have a point swing sucks. That is one reason why i no longer want anything to do with swing gui projects. In my humble opinion, C# gui will run rings around swing. But on the server side i have no need for C# - java can do it all.
Layne Lund
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Joined: Dec 06, 2001
Posts: 3061
I have a lot more experience with C++ than with Java, and I keep vacilating between the two. I'm not sure which I like more. I also use C++Builder, and I like the tools that it provides to create GUI apps. I don't resent your remark too much since I have seen many "programmers" trying to use BCB but not understanding many of the intricacies of the underlying language (such as classes and pointers). BCB is a very powerful tool that leverages RAD development, but as you said, many so-called programmers don't know the first thing about C++ and can only copy and paste.


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Jon McDonald
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 02, 2001
Posts: 167
OK, C/C++ are still tops for OS development and low level systems programming. They probably also will remain secure in positions where the programmer is trying to squeeze every last bit of performance out of a processor (without using assembly language).
But most software development jobs don't deal with OS development. mostly it's developing and maintaining applications that run on top of Operating Systems. I guess my questions it this:
When Java first came out, people were talking about it becoming the dominant programming language and moving C/C++ to second tier status, has this already happened? And regardless of whether Java is the dominant programming language, has C/C++ already been moved to the second tier? Will C/C++'s decline continue or has it reached bottom? Just some questions.
Thanks,
Jon
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

In Application Development, I would have to say yes, C/C++ has declined and probably will not rear it's head on top again. Reason being, VB, C#, JAVA.
VB has pretty much taken over the RAD world.
C# was actually developed to make RAD even RADer and MS hopes to convert a lot of VBers to C#.
JAVA has it's platform independencies going for it among many other things.
I can't imagine anyone writing a GUI applicaiton in C++ using MFC anymore let alone C.
But as was stated before C and C++ both have their place. And no matter what may be available in the future, you can bet the compiler was written in C/C++.


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Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
C++ developer demand might be down but the pay tends to be a little higher than Java developers.


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