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Job Market and Salary

Skyler Smith
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 05, 2001
Posts: 12
I have never had to negotiate a salary increase. I don�t know if I am the position to with the market being so bad, and I really don�t want to be job hunting. I got my performance review and everything was outstanding to Exceeds Expectation except for one item that was Meets Expectations. I was really expecting a larger raise than what I got. I know that the person previous to me was making several thousand more. This person was not able to do a complete application, and they left on their own accord. I do feel that I should be at least making what they were paying this person because I have completed several applications and I have more skills(ability) than them. Am I wrong to think that I deserve more by comparing myself to the previous person? I practically got the same raise had I just Meet Expectations because I would of at least gotten a raise for the increase of the cost of living for the year, which I hear is 2%. I could do less of a job and get the same raise, so why try.
Should I mention something and see what happens? What if my boss doesn�t like it because that is what he believes I should get? My other option is do less of a job and coast along.
I am not sure if this is the place for career advice, but I would appreciate it. I just don�t want to get #$#@!
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
This is the place.
Here's the key to remember, you need to justify your need, as you've done to us, but do so in more detail. When he makes a counter offer, ask him to justify it.
Some of it may be things you can't know, e.g. his budget.
When he makes a counter offer, takes time to think about, don't agree on the spot. Ask for at least a night. Look at his arguments and think about how you disagree with his assumptions or logic--don't just focus on the disagreement on the bototm line.

--Mark
Sam Tilley
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 05, 2001
Posts: 160
If you want to get dirty about it then check your employment law. Over here in the UK they are bringing in new legislation that says you can legally check what your male or female co-worker is on and if you feel you are doing the same job can bring it up. They don't have a leg to stand on and if it ever got to a tribunal they would look in your favour. It is meant as a sexism thing but can be used i would imagine to ensure people are getting a fair deal. Bit of a strong way of doing it though!!
I am in exactly the same position as you and like you had a very favourable review. I found out this year that my ex-boss whos job i am now doing better and more efficiently than her got paid quite a few thousand more. I brought it up in my review and said i felt de-motivated and unloved etc etc. He agreed that i was doing a better job, had saved the company lots of dosh, had more skills etc etc and said he would see what he could do (trotted out the usual excuses about the bad market). Im to find out in the next few days what i have been increased to but if its not what i expect then im just going straight back in there, i think he kind of knows this and is luckily quite a decent boss.
You have to be proactive and take it to them. Say you heard how much they were on and you are unhappy about it, list what you do more and better and generally take them to task. If they really do believe you are better and want to keep you they will pay up, otherwise you find out the hard way that they value you less!!! But dont worry he certainly cant sack you or demote you for trying, if hes a decent guy he should be happy you are showing initiative and are ambitious.
Hope this helps, im just keeping my own fingers crossed now that i dont have to do any confronting of my own.


Sam Tilley SCJP, SCWCD
Skyler Smith
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 05, 2001
Posts: 12
The bad thing is he told me the % of my raise. I indicated how I wansn't happy about it and he seemed to get fustrated. I already signed something agreeing to the amount because I felt I had no other choice. Is that it? It was even indicated that certs and eduction have no bearing on how they do my review and raises.
Aruna Raghavan
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 14, 2002
Posts: 194
That's interesting-
I hold 2 masters degrees (EE and Computer Engineering) with high GPAs and I have SCPJ. Currently working on the Developer test. Anyway, I have had similar experience at least once. I have 9 years of software experience but apparently that is not good enough and degrees are not important. I also happen to be a female ( not sure if this made a difference.)


Aruna A. Raghavan<br />SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by Skyler Smith:
I already signed something agreeing to the amount because I felt I had no other choice. Is that it?

Well, morally, if you agreed to it and now are changing your mind, I can understand him being frsutrated. if you have a problem with something, don't agree to it and change your mind later; insteal, stall, ask for a day or two to think about it, and then mount a response.

Originally posted by Skyler Smith:
It was even indicated that certs and eduction have no bearing on how they do my review and raises.

And they're right to do that, too. Why should they pay you a $1,000 more just because you took a test, or went to a school? how does that help them? They should figure out what you're worth and pay you appropriately. Having advanced degrees (and some would argue certification--although I wouldn't) or more years experieince should make you a better developer, and therefore they should recognize a higher value in you. However, those are indirect benefits of degrees to salary. you should not get more money just because of a degree, you should get it because you have extra knowledge/ability--whether it came from a degree or experience or a faustian bargain is irrelevant.

--Mark
Rufus BugleWeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2002
Posts: 1551
IMO - personality, politics and appearance count as much as performance. I don't need an answer. How much does your boss like you?
Skyler Smith
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 05, 2001
Posts: 12
He used to like me. Now I am tired or being pushed around and treated like I don't know squat, so I have been speaking my mind. Others ppinions don't fair well with him. I really didn't know what option I had when he said what raise I was getting. I tried to point out that I have been going to school on my own and that I know much more than I did a year ago. And most of the knowledge came from me going out and doing it on my own not work for the company.
I think I will tell him that I am disappointed and feel as though they don't appreciate my value. I am not going to push for a raise because where I am at I will not get it. I even checked on the salary charts and I am getting paid at least 4 thousand less than the average person in my position.
I am just going to settle with the fact that if they don't treat me well then I will not be loyal to stay or Exceed Expectations.
[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: Skyler Smith ]
[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: Skyler Smith ]
frank davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
IMO - personality, politics and appearance count as much as performance.

Personality, politics and appearance count more than performance.
Skyler Smith
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 05, 2001
Posts: 12
I did have a conversation with my boss and I feel better about everything. I just needed justification(discussion). I do agree that these things(politics) matter and I am going to focus more on them. Thanks everyone for you advice.
I do have a question. Do people think the job market is going to get better for IT? In case I get the pink slip in my next pay check. I feel like being in the software development there is nothing out there unless you know everything and have 7+ years of experience.
[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: Skyler Smith ]
Stephen Pride
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 14, 2000
Posts: 121
The IT job market will turn around eventually, but the $5 billion question is "When?". I've read many articles suggesting the first half of 2003, while others are saying it will be further out. I read an interesting article at Yahoo! a week or two ago regarding how big corporations will have to worry about deflation next year.
I checked my company's internal job database about six months ago, and there were only about a handfull of jobs listed. I checked again about a week ago and the number has gone up considerably, although, it is still a lot lower than it was a couple years ago.


SCJP
Guennadiy VANIN
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 30, 2001
Posts: 898
I live in the country that follows by its situation the US with a delay of 9-11 months.
Tell me when the situation is up again so I start looking for a decent job (now I look for any). Searching of job is just the lost of time, currently, with such overqualified JAVA specialists laid-off in contry of my residence.
BTW why does it affect, first of all, JAVA develoopers?
 
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