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Are all the jobs posted on monster?

Menaka gangamavari
Greenhorn

Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 13
What are the other sites we must consider ?
Can anyone please post an answer ?
Are there any sites which has the hidden job market ???
John Lee
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
i am wondering the same question. myself sometimes visit "hot jobs", "career builder", i like to know whether it is a waste of time?
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by Menaka gangamavari:
Are there any sites which has the hidden job market ???

You're the second person I've seen post about a "hidden job market?" What exactly is this hidden job market? Is this some term coined in an article or book?
(I should imagine that if it is hidden, it wouldn't be readily available from a website.)
--Mark
Menaka gangamavari
Greenhorn

Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 13
Here is a site I found about hidden job market.
http://jobsmart.org/hidden/hidden.cfm

Here are some of the job sites I am familiar with
www.dice.com
www.monster.com
www.flipdog.com
www.computerjobs.com
www.careerbuilder.com
www.hotjobs.com
Although there are some local state or city job sites like
www.floridajobs.com
or www.pittsburghjobs.com
leo donahue
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 17, 2003
Posts: 327
Originally posted by Don Liu:
i am wondering the same question. myself sometimes visit "hot jobs", "career builder", i like to know whether it is a waste of time?

In the last six months I have visited computerjobs.com, careerbuilder, monster, flipdog among others. I always see a posting for what seems like the same job posted by about a dozen or so IT recruiting firms. If you are lucky and get someone on the phone, those jobs that are always posted via the internet are always "filled" even though you will see updated postings for that same job for weeks.
I saw an advertisement for a recruiting company in Egan Minnesota. They were advertising about 10 entry level jobs in the Minnesota area for VB, Java, SQL and the like. Anyone with one year experience, according to their ad, was considered a candidate. When I called the office of the IT recruiter posting those jobs, they said they didn't have anything open.
Let me digress a little into the paranoia. Sometimes I wonder whether those jobs even existed in the first place. I think "most" IT recruiters post ficticious jobs to see what the local employment market is like. After all, they need to make some $$ off your skills. I also wonder whether the companies ever even see your resume. All you know is that you are forwarding your resume to someone at 0a4wu;lafjow498wr@careerbuilder.com
Seems fishy and unethical to me. I've quit using websites altogether. If I don't have a phone number to an HR department, I don't send anything via the internet anymore. It's just not worth it.
My two cents.


Thanks, leo
John Lee
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
thanks for sharing your experience!
Rufus BugleWeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2002
Posts: 1551
There's a hidden job market. Somebody on the inside of the business gets their family member or buddy hired to a position that's never posted. Nobody competes for the position.
Contract firms get the opportunity that the hiring companies have at different times. Insiders get them first. First level vendors get them next. A week or days later second levels get them.
So when you see a second level advertising a job the insiders and the first levels already have their resumes with the hiring manager. Successful firms must have resumes and candidates ready before jobs open.
John Lee
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
yes, it happens. sometimes even the ad is posted, but they have decided who to hire already.
Nicholas Turner
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 24, 2003
Posts: 126
Heres a tip:
Call every recruiter, call them every day, dont only ask them for a job ask them about thier life be thier friend so you will be on his mind when a job comes by.
When you see a job go in person and deliver it, ask them who gets the resume. Call later like your with a company. ask for his extension and email address.
Call him and talk to him and send an email too thanking him for conversation.
Search for tiny contracts, even offer to work for free if you cant solve the problem. This works very well for creating a network.
I have been unemployed for 6 months, but due to these tips I got month contracts to work from hiome from past contacts, when a job comes up I always get an interview due to my close relationship with recruiters.
And I stress in this job market the relationship with your recruiter is key. Be his best friend if at all possible.
Words to live by,
Nick
Nicholas Turner
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 24, 2003
Posts: 126
And get used to false job on the net by recruiters it increases thier candidate bank thats all it does
John Lee
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
it is recruiter's job to find job for someone (find someone to fill in the position). when he help someone get hired, he get bonus. so if your qualification is very good, then he will treat you very well. having good relation with recruiter helps. they can tell you why you should follow-up call the employer on thursday instead of wednesday.
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2003
Posts: 715
Hi,
Don the recruiter earns commission when successfully placing full time employee. If you are consultant, you will be treat very nice because the recruiter could make a cut 2 to 5% off your account until the account terminate or you decide not to stay with that particular recruiter.
If a consultant have a duo roles as recruiter, usually a candidate get hired very quickly. The second type of recruiter who may not know jack about technology but still place the candidate very quickly is a former high level management or high level contact. The rest of them are just resume collectors, sell to company procurement, and your resume will have to go through HR and the whole nine yard before you lucky enough to get a phone call for interview.
Regards,
MCao
John Lee
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
hi:
the root reason is slow economy. same resume, may be interviewed and hired quickly 3 years ago, but not right now. but trust me, jobs are still out there. so never give up. success is right around the corner.
Nicholas Turner
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 24, 2003
Posts: 126
The whole secret is your cover letter. It has to be good and about the job.
But what really gets them is your experience. You have the flower your experience. Give the biggest kick and mention numbers but remember if you lie you more than likely will get caught
Jon McDonald
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 02, 2001
Posts: 167
I've had much more success applying directly to employers than going through recruiters. I might recomend checking the websites of all of the companies for the industry you are chosing in your area. Also, for some reason, hand delivering a resume and cover letter on QUALITY paper seems to work much better than emailing resumes (My response rate went up by a factor of 10).
I'll be back on the job hunt scene soon, so I am going to do my best to avoid dealing with headhunting firms. Most of the recruiters I dealt with were young women and men a few years out of college, who had no clue about technology. 4 of them tried to pitch me on the same job (a job that was also posted on the company's website).

While headhunters will rarely post the name of the Company they want to place you with in their postings, a little detective work will often times reveal the company. Simply by telling you the industry and the general location (e.g. downtown, western suburbs) will help you determine the company. Often times, the company will post their own ad on one or more of these sites.
In fact, I have a buddy who used to be a recruiter for one of the big firms and he told me the main way recruiters find companies is that they call up ads just like we do. If Sears is looking for a Java coder and has posted on monster.com, they will call up Sears and say that they have several canidates that might be good for the job. Then they'll go through their stack of resumes and send it to Sears. The first resumes they send are those of people who have successfully worked for them in the past.

Jon


SCJP<br/>
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
SJ Adnams
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 925
a resume and cover letter on QUALITY paper

I think thats a fantastic idea. When I get laid off from this place, thats what I'm gonna do first. I'm sure I'll be the only one (ok 2nd) who does it.
Hand made paper, with a mongrammed watermark
John Lee
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
Originally posted by Nicholas Turner:
The whole secret is your cover letter. It has to be good and about the job.

if you find a right match, then it is worth the effort to customize the cover letter, otherwise, it is just too time consuming to write cover letter for each company you submit your resume to.
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2003
Posts: 715
Hi,
I alway thought CV is a defacto requirement. With that frame of mind, whenever I see resumes on my desk, the first thing I read CV. Am I wrong?
Regards,
MCao
Jamie Robertson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 09, 2001
Posts: 1879

Originally posted by Don Liu:

if you find a right match, then it is worth the effort to customize the cover letter, otherwise, it is just too time consuming to write cover letter for each company you submit your resume to.

If your not willing to put in the time and effort, I'm not willing to read it. I know that the busiest time in my career is when I'm unemployed. A customized cover letter for each position is a must, otherwise you don't really want the job enough. I find that each cover letter I make takes about 4 hours, after I've researched the company's background, financial reports, job description. I also write a different version of my resume for each job prospective job to leave out info that is irrelevant to the job and accentuate or expand on other more relavent skills/experience. If your not willing to put in the effort, someone else is, and the person putting in the effort will get the job. In my career, I've been looking for employment 3 times. I've put out 4 resumes and got all 4 jobs ( turned one down ). It's not because I have a Ph.d and 500 certifications or I'm some sort of scholar, but because I made the effort to hand out the best resume. And then there is the interview preparation....
Jamie
John Lee
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
I find that each cover letter I make takes about 4 hours

that is too much for me, especially right now, when you saw something very close, there are many people feel the same way, so at the end of the day, qualification talks. by nature, applying for job is a not a process of certainty, but uncertainty.
 
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