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SCJP, what next?

Prakash Dwivedi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 28, 2002
Posts: 452
Hello friends,
I am SCJP2(cleared it about a year back), what certification exam(or exams) should i give that will increase probability of finding good job(that is certificates that has market value).
I am having about 3 yrs of experience in(Core Jav,Servlets,JSP,EJB,XML).
I am more interested in career in either EJB or wireless computing(although i neither have any experience nor any knowledge of job prospects of wireless computing in India)
thanx

thanx in advance


Prakash Dwivedi (SCJP2, SCWCD, SCBCD)
"Failure is not when you fall down, Its only when you don't get up again"
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2003
Posts: 715
Hi Prakash,
Sorry for interrupt. Are you in US? I have a buddy who runs a computer repair shop joins with a computer training inside the same facility. After chit chat I found out that there is not many people go to get Java Cert exam nowaday. I hope could somebody give me better picture. I know the economy play a very major role.
Thanks,
MCao
Prakash Dwivedi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 28, 2002
Posts: 452
i am from New Delhi, India.
as for SCJP exam it only certifies basic knowledge of java(i.e. synatx and basic rules)
i think it should help freshers.
Prakash Dwivedi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 28, 2002
Posts: 452
no response ?
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2003
Posts: 715
Hi Prakash,
You need to provide us more information about you. What I see in your post is too limited. Hopefully, your countrymen will help you because java & employment is hot over there. Please not the whole resume. This is afterall, an internet.
Regards,
MCao
Prakash Dwivedi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 28, 2002
Posts: 452
Let me reframe my question:
How much helful are certification exams in getting u a job? Do employers really take into considerations these things
and
Which certification exams has more market value(in terms of getting job)?
SCJD
SCJA
SCWCD
IBM XML
IBM OOAD
IBM Websphere
or any else
I have worked in all of the above technologies an d i am interested in giving only that certification exam which could provide me a better job
thankx
Malcolm Featonby
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 18, 2003
Posts: 14
Hi Prakash,
I have been working internationally as a consultant for a number of years and in the last couple has started consulting in java.
I would suggest deciding what kind of job you are after before you spend loads of money on exams. Assuming you plan to stay with java then I think that the Java Developer Exam and\or the Java Architect Exams are good if you wish to get some background into designing and building Enterprise based solutions.
I disagree that the Java Certification is not being done or worth doing. I would certainly take Java Certification into consideration when looking at a future employee. However commercial experience is always going to be the deciding factor I am afraid.
I hope this helps and good luck finding a job.
Malcolm
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
"Malcolm",
PROPER NAMES ARE NOW REQUIRED
Please look carefully at official naming policy at javaranch & reregister yourself with proper first & last name, with a space between them. Please adhere to official naming policy & help maintain the decorum of the forum. The naming policy can be found at http://www.javaranch.com/name.jsp

--Mark
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2003
Posts: 715
Hi Prakash,
As an in-house Engineering Consultant with background in EE, help the company Engineering Manager reviewing a lot resumes or line up third party consultants. When there are 2 resumes with equally qualifications ie. work experiences and background ie. same level of brandname schools, the only different is one with cert and the other without. The one have cert will get the call.
Customize resume to fit with the job spec and do not clustering with the whole bunches of cert. It pronounces your weakness very loud, You-Have-No-Clue. That's only apply to full time employee not consultant.
I don't know India market, but in US definitely will lean toward wireless. If you do not have industry experience in that, then I guess reconnect with your favorite professor or hang around with those opensource site. I have seen a mobile computer lab with command center recently and it just give me an idea for my retirement days.
Hope it helps,
MCao
Derek Grey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 09, 2002
Posts: 204
It pronounces your weakness very loud, You-Have-No-Clue. That's only apply to full time employee not consultant.
Could you please emphasize on this...it might help me in my search.
Thanks.
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2003
Posts: 715
Hi San,
For example, the job description looking for full time Web Developer and the spec involve Java, JavaScript, HTML, Tag Lib, Struts, Host Publisher, DB/2, and WebSphere.
I see a resume clustered with SCJP, SCJD, OCA, MS A+, MCSE, NCNE, CompTIA, CCNA, CCNP, etc. Well, you can see my point.
This candidate may have obtained those certs because the previous job requirements or whatever. But this position do not need them. It would be nice to have cert directly related to the position.
Regards,
MCao
[ June 18, 2003: Message edited by: Matt Cao ]
Derek Grey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 09, 2002
Posts: 204
hey Matt,
I think that's logical and what recruiters should be looking at. But sometimes it so happens that when there is a tie, recruiters go for the guy who has SPECIFIED that something extra.
In this market where one cannot afford to loose offers, what do you say one should do in such a situation ?
Jon McDonald
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 02, 2001
Posts: 167
Originally posted by San Tiruvan:
hey Matt,
I think that's logical and what recruiters should be looking at. But sometimes it so happens that when there is a tie, recruiters go for the guy who has SPECIFIED that something extra.
In this market where one cannot afford to loose offers, what do you say one should do in such a situation ?

Hey San,
I think I understand Matt's point. Especially if a canidate had the list of certs that Matt listed in the above list. If I were reviewing the list I would begin to wonder what this person was actually good at. Are they a software developeer, a System Administrator, or a Network engineer? Software development and system administration are so different that I would question a person's knowledge if I saw so many varied certifications.
Now, a bunch of developer certs alone or a bunch of System Administration Certs alone would be less questionable for me. However, I would also be leary of someone who had 10 development certs (especially one's claiming them to be software architects and designers) and NO experience and maybe no degree. It tends to make one look like a "Paper Tiger". Now that same person with those certs and at least a few open source development projects on his resume would look a lot stronger to me, especially if they had code samples with them.
Keep in mind that there is NO LAW (at least in the U.S.) that says you have to put EVERY Job, Certification, and Skill you have on your resume. I am a huge fan of tailoring my resume to fit each job I apply for (as long as I can remain truthful).
In my experience, the first person I meet in the interview process is the (Non-Technical) HR person. This person has only the information given to her by the department that needs the employee, and most of the time she puts all of that info in the ad.
Because the HR person is the first person to review the resumes, make it as easy for her as possible to see that you have the qualifications the company needs. When she reads your resume, you want her to think "This guy is PERFECT for this position". You do that not by overwhelming them with all of your certs (most of which she will not be familiar with), but by giving them EXACTLY what they ask for (while still being truthful). At the technical interview you will be able to tell the interviewer about your additional skills if you feel it is necessary.
NOTE: The above suggestion applies when you are applying directly to the company (not going through a headhunter). Headhunters may shop your resume around to multiple employers (if you are lucky ) so the general resume MAY be best.
Jon


SCJP<br/>
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2003
Posts: 715
Hi San,
Do you have a life man?
OK, if there is such a case, the next step is award, promotion, or standout bonus. I am talking about 100% to 50% bonus. It is totally different than award. I have it and some other employees. I even have confirm from HR people of associate companies, they said companies do give them for employee with exemplify performance.
Regards,
MCao
[ June 18, 2003: Message edited by: Matt Cao ]
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2003
Posts: 715
Hi Jon,
Thanks it is a good respond. "One can be a jack of all trades, but do not let those gate keepers know."
When the second or third interviews if the interviewer ask a scenario, you respond maybe a litle different than previous candidates -- observe the subtle reaction from interviewer, then you back up your solution with explaination while with ABC company you did XYZ and solved with the minimal amount of time reducing the design/developing/etc. phase which mentioned by department head during the weekly department meeting. You-Are-Now-A-Diversify-Candidate.
Regards,
MCao
[ June 19, 2003: Message edited by: Matt Cao ]
Derek Grey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 09, 2002
Posts: 204
Hello,
These help:
Keep in mind that there is NO LAW (at least in the U.S.) that says you have to put EVERY Job, Certification, and Skill you have on your resume. I am a huge fan of tailoring my resume to fit each job I apply for (as long as I can remain truthful).
Because the HR person is the first person to review the resumes, make it as easy for her as possible to see that you have the qualifications the company needs.
The above suggestion applies when you are applying directly to the company (not going through a headhunter).
and these DON'T:
Do you have a life man?
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2003
Posts: 715
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

In India certification do nto give you jobs. In fact most employers in India ignore certifications. This has been my experience.
I feel certifications helps you to understand the subject better therby preparing you for the interview.
This is my opnion. You may have your own thoughts.


Groovy
Prakash Dwivedi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 28, 2002
Posts: 452
Originally posted by Jon McDonald:

Now that same person with those certs and at least a few open source development projects on his resume would look a lot stronger to me, especially if they had code samples with them.

Hi Jon,
can u explain this point, what kind of code samples are expected, moreover the code we write in the company are the property of the company and i dont think we can publish it in our resume.
plz explain
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2003
Posts: 715
Hi Prakash,
Sorry for interrupt. Do you have a draft version of your part? The final project is belong to the company. Unless you work for a security sensitive project. If your work as a classified project, just mentioned the word classified on your resume. The company will run your background and the word classified also print out. You are home save. The company looks for the truth in your words that's all. That's my second hand knowledge because I'm not working in the HR dept.
Cheers,
MCao
[ June 24, 2003: Message edited by: Matt Cao ]
Jon McDonald
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 02, 2001
Posts: 167
Originally posted by Prakash Dwivedi:

Hi Jon,
can u explain this point, what kind of code samples are expected, moreover the code we write in the company are the property of the company and i dont think we can publish it in our resume.
plz explain

Hi Prakash,
First, code samples aren't normally expected by an employer. Thats what makes them powerful. By bringing code samples you tend to stand out from the crowd.
Second, the type of code samples I was thinking of are along the lines of small, independent projects you have done. Its good to have a few of these at hand.
I have done some small projects for small companies and individuals, in which they contracted me to deliver an application. In those cases I have kept the rights to my source code.
This probably won't work if you are an employee for a corporation, but in that case, simply build some interesting applications on your own time. Not only does it show your programming skill, it also demonstrates that you are interested enough in the technology to play with it in your free time.
Hope This Helps,
Jon
 
 
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