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Future Of Engineering

Natalie Kopple
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 06, 2003
Posts: 325
Composed by Eric Worden and posted at the AmericanWorkersCoalition:
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Unchecked and unregulated capitalism will lead to exploitation. That's why we don't have children under the age of 15 or 16 working in this country. I'm glad the person pointed out that India doesn't have a problem with child labor and child exploitation.
"money will flow where it gets maximum return..."
Business will flow where it gets the cheapest cost. Very different. This is why countries protect their industries' labor and resources by subsidies and
tariffs.
The above statement assumes investment, which you could say you get a higher ROI from cheap labor. But capitalism and talking heads always point out that
cost savings are passed on to the consumer.
Why isn't MS Windows XP Pro $29.99, or MS Office XP Pro $79.99? Why don't American cars such as GM and Ford cost $5K? Most of the parts and assembly are
done offshore and/or in Mexico. Why hasn't the price of a home gone down as a result of the illegals that build the home? Why has craftsmanship gone down and
homes are slapped together like boxes (cookie cutter homes save money)? Why is orange juice so expensive even though they have migrant workers to pick the
oranges?
Why are executive salaries in this country so out of line with the value they add? Remember the big stink about Jack Welch and the perks he was getting? They
were way out of line... Did he add that much value to the company after he was gone? What about the skull duggery and back handedness of American Airlines
management giving themselves all bonuses while at the same time getting the employees from pilots to mechanics to take pay cuts?
I contend that any cost savings that are obtained from cheap labor is kept within the company and not passed on to consumers. Remember our whole system is based on quarterly earnings and hitting your numbers, which in turn bodes well on the stock price of the company. If you hit your numbers, you get an incentive bonus for doing your job.
Lastly, it's been our system of laws and government that have allowed business to prosper in this country. If it weren't for business transactions, contract
law and their enforcement, there would be no business because business would have no protections. Business has derived it's power and benefitted from our system of laws and our infrastructure. These have been paid for by the people through taxes, local, state and federal... If a contract's been violated, what
happens? The company files a law suit in our court system.
Examples of countries that do not have the same infrastructure and law enforcement are India, Pakistan, Mexico, on and on...
Well, let me get off my soap box...
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Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Eric Worden and posting at the AmericanWorkersCoalition:

"money will flow where it gets maximum return..."
Business will flow where it gets the cheapest cost. Very different. This is why countries protect their industries' labor and resources by subsidies and
tariffs.

I must be missing something. Business will flow where it gets the cheapest cost. That's slightly inaccurate. Business will flow where it gets the best ROI. That's not always the most money, because the company must weigh the risk-rewards across the different options. Because different business have different strengths and capabilities, they differentiate their products and services appropriately (including different profit margins).
If business flowed only to cheapest cost, then we would not produce luxury items.
--Mark
Billy Tsai
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1297
whats the difference between Bachelor of Engineering in Software Engineering and Bachelor of Science in Computer Science, also MSc in Computer science and ME and software engineering?
I only know one is offered by department of engineering and another is offered by department of science, and its hard to get accepted into and software engineering program and also anyone can get into a computer science program.
Derek Grey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 09, 2002
Posts: 204
Natalie,
Why is your topic heading so different from the content??? ...to drag people into reading it???.....I think Billy's content is more appropriate.
Since I have not been to Pakistan, Mexico and other countries I shall not speak for them. In India the main reasons for not having proper infrastructure are the following:
1. Excess Population (1.25 Billion). Five times that of USA.
2. Excessive Corruption (encouraged by politicians)
3. It's only been 56 years since the British got kicked out of India. Considering that I can safely say that our infrastructure is comparitively good.
Billy Tsai
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 1297
since there are not much future for ppl with computer science, information system or IT related degree is there any future for ppl with Software Engineering Degree from Engineering Department of Universities?
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by Billy Tsai:
whats the difference between Bachelor of Engineering in Software Engineering and Bachelor of Science in Computer Science, also MSc in Computer science and ME and software engineering?
I only know one is offered by department of engineering and another is offered by department of science, and its hard to get accepted into and software engineering program and also anyone can get into a computer science program.

Originally posted by Billy Tsai:
since there are not much future for ppl with computer science, information system or IT related degree is there any future for ppl with Software Engineering Degree from Engineering Department of Universities?

I have tended to left topics drift, since most issues here can't be viewed in isolation. However, I might need to rein it in a bit going forward. Certainly Billy's comments are way off topic for this subject. Billy, please consider posting it in a new topic.
--Mark
[ July 27, 2003: Message edited by: Mark Herschberg ]
Natalie Kopple
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 06, 2003
Posts: 325
Composed by Shawn Hall posted at the AmericanWorkersCoalition
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The root of it even more plain. Business decisions are made by the few (corporate execs) that are obligated to choose the 'best course' for all those affected by their business, but without having to answer to them directly. Politicians do the same. Whenever a decisions potential is limited in back-lash reaction to those that have no real power to change anything, the decision-maker will make decisions providing solely for their own personal interests, without concern for the others that their decisions will affect.
Corporate execs do this with the effect of screwing their workers, while our political representatives do much the same to every citizen. Our politicians' answer only to a simple majority of actual voters, which is often far less than 20% of the population. All they have to do is offer programs and services (to the effect of bribes) to encourage a simple majority to keep them in office. While they are there the rest of their time is devoted to special interests, reducing and/or eliminating the rights of the common person, and keeping their
re-election pet project in the publics eye.
I don't think it's possible to solve the problems we're facing (and will continue to face) as long as we keep electing career politicians. I also highly doubt the ability to have a non-career politician elected to replace the bottomless-pit financing of a corporate stooge career politician.
Regards,
Shawn K. Hall
http://ReliableAnswers.com/
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Jon McDonald
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 02, 2001
Posts: 167
Originally posted by Natalie Kopple:

The root of it even more plain. Business decisions are made by the few (corporate execs) that are obligated to choose the 'best course' for all those affected by their business, but without having to answer to them directly.

I always thought the corporate execs were (legally) obligated to choose the best course on behalf of their shareholders. I thought that they had a fiduciary responsibility to maximize the profits of the shareholders (although there has been huge discussion recently on how executives have not fulfilled that responsibility).
Thanks,
Jon


SCJP<br/>
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
shay Aluko
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 01, 2002
Posts: 167
Originally posted by Jon McDonald:

I always thought the corporate execs were (legally) obligated to choose the best course on behalf of their shareholders. I thought that they had a fiduciary responsibility to maximize the profits of the shareholders (although there has been huge discussion recently on how executives have not fulfilled that responsibility).
Thanks,
Jon

I guess in theory they are,in practice a lot of corporate execs are more interested in lining their own pockets than fulfilling thier responsibilities to anyone, customers, shareholders etc.The average corporate CEO earns about 200 -500 times what the average employee earns.(saw it in a survey somwhere). Does he/she bring proportionate value?, i beg to differ. The reason shareholder apathy is so much is institutional shareholdership. Frequently these institutional shareholders are in cahoots with the CEOs so there is no incentive to perform and shareholder activism is kept to a minimum. The only way out of this mess is better shareholder education and stricter enforcement by the SEC, not the ridiculous "perp walks" we have been seeing of late, since they are essentially too little too late and only of symbolic value
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by shay Aluko:

Frequently these institutional shareholders are in cahoots with the CEOs so there is no incentive to perform and shareholder activism is kept to a minimum.


I agreed with everything you said up to the statement above. Can you site evidence of this? Financial institutions (e.g. pension plans), gain no benefits from inactive shareholders. They do suffer negative consequences of poorer performance.
--Mark
 
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subject: Future Of Engineering
 
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