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Copyright Infringement

Tony Morris
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Joined: Sep 24, 2003
Posts: 1608
http://faq.javaranch.com/view?HowToClearTheConsole
looks strikingly similar to:
http://jqa.tmorris.net/GetQAndA.action?qids=45&showAnswers=true

Please be careful and thoughtful in respecting the work of others.


Tony Morris
Java Q&A (FAQ, Trivia)
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15286
    
    6

A bit nitpicky on what you want credit for, but there you go Bill Gates, er, uh I mean, Tony. Wait, is that wink copy protected?


GenRocket - A Test Data Generation Platform
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
Um, I don't think adding a credit really solves the problem if the work is copyrighted. Unless the copyright holder agrees to it, which doesn't seem to have occurred here yet. If I publicly post a chapter from the latest Harry Potter, it does't become OK just because i thought to add JK Rowling's name.

Looking at the history of that page, I see that this credit has appeared and disappeared several times in successive edits. I assume that two or more people are engaged in an edit war here. I would argue that adding a credit may not be enough, but deleting the credit and keeping the article intact is certainly wrong. It's obvious that the text was cut and pasted from Tony's site, and whoever has been deleting credit while keeping the rest of the text seems to be moving in the wrong direction entirely.

Offhand I'd think the best thing to do is just replace the entire page with a link to Tony's answer, since at the moment the friki page doesn't seem to add anything original. I'll delay implementing that plan until others have an opportunity to weigh in.
[ December 19, 2005: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]

"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
Maximilian Xavier Stocker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2005
Posts: 381
Um, I don't think adding a credit really solves the problem if the work is copyrighted. Unless the copyright holder agrees to it, which doesn't seem to have occurred here yet. If I publicly post a chapter from the latest Harry Potter, it does't become OK just because i thought to add JK Rowling's name.

I agree. Nothing much else to say here just casting my vote in that direction.

Looking at the history of that page, I see that this credit has appeared and disappeared several times in successive edits. I assume that two or more people are engaged in an edit war here.

This is unfortunate.

I implemented a sort of talk page for the JDBC discussion to help with this. There wasn't a particular edit "war" but there were some edits I didn't understand and also I wanted to explain the edits I had done.

I think talk pages are good because the person who is making edits to this page may well not be reading this thread and may have a different opinion on the subject. For example maybe the person making the edit does not know that the material is essentially copied and is thinking that the credit link is just someone promoting themselves? I have no idea but there could be a fairly resonable explanation I think.

Offhand I'd think the best thing to do is just replace the entire page with a link to Tony's answer, since at the moment the friki page doesn't seem to add anything original. I'll delay implementing that plan until others have an opportunity to weigh in.


I vote for your plan.

I also think that either/both of the following could be helpful.

Could the page or page that links to the other site be locked for editing? There are some pages for which I see no edit button but I suspect others can see an edit button. With a link to this thread or such at the bottom that could maybe help.

The other idea is to write new content for this page. Actually I don't think it would be too hard. Again if new content ends up being reverted back to the old with no credit/permission then I think an edit lock would be needed.

My 2 cents.
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Maximilian Stocker:
Could the page or page that links to the other site be locked for editing?


No, cannot be done with our current software, and would also be quite in conflict with the "wiki spirit", in my opinion. I think we should be able to resolve this without this feature.


The other idea is to write new content for this page. Actually I don't think it would be too hard.


Yes, I think we should do this. With all due respect, I don't find Tony's page on this topic to be as nice as it could be.


The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Ernest Friedman-Hill
author and iconoclast
Marshal

Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 24166
    
  30

Note that actually only the top part of that page is potentially a rip from Tony. The bottom part, which includes the stuff about ANSI escape sequences, was written by me. It's survived untouched during the whole "edit war."


[Jess in Action][AskingGoodQuestions]
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
Apologies for overlooking the new part EFH added. Also on review I may have exaggerated the "edit war" as it looks like it could have been accidental from near-simultaneous updates in response to Tony's post. I thought I saw more than one removal of the citation of Tony's page (even prior to Tony's post), but it appears I was mistaken. Nevermind then.
Ernest Friedman-Hill
author and iconoclast
Marshal

Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 24166
    
  30

I edited the page to contain only our original material plus a link to Tony's site.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15286
    
    6

I was editing it and couldn't figure out how to make the external link look like I wanted it to look with the wiki syntax. That is why there was a multitude of edits in a short time frame.
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:
I was editing it and couldn't figure out how to make the external link look like I wanted it to look with the wiki syntax.


The syntax is currently very limited. It should improve once we manage to update Friki...
Maximilian Xavier Stocker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2005
Posts: 381
Originally posted by Ilja Preuss:


The syntax is currently very limited. It should improve once we manage to update Friki...


If such an update is in the cards would it include talk discussion pages? I really like that feature of wikipedia. It a seems good idea to me for having such discussions in the place where the content is rather than having to search around for a thread somewhere else or hope that people even find such thread.

Just a hopeful request.
Tony Morris
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 24, 2003
Posts: 1608
I don't mind if no credit is given. I was just noting that it would be in everyone's best interest to be careful. Leave it as it is and I am happy. As has been pointed out, it's not anything of any significant value (at least not to me, which is the important bit). I'm more hinting at the possibility that if this can occur, then a more significant infringement might also be possible, which could cause problems for all involved.
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Maximilian Stocker:

If such an update is in the cards would it include talk discussion pages? I really like that feature of wikipedia. It a seems good idea to me for having such discussions in the place where the content is rather than having to search around for a thread somewhere else or hope that people even find such thread.

Just a hopeful request.


It won't have it as an explicite feature, but you can always put a link to a FooBarDiscussion page on a FooBar page - which is accepted practice on other wikis.
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Originally posted by Tony Morris:
I'm more hinting at the possibility that if this can occur, then a more significant infringement might also be possible, which could cause problems for all involved.


OK, thanks for the clarification!

Of course with a wiki, we can't possibly guarantee that all the content added by arbitrary community members is free of copyrighted material. The same, of course, is true for the forums. I'm not an expert in this matters, but it seems to me that if we react as early as we become aware of a copyright infringement, we should be pretty safe?
Tony Morris
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 24, 2003
Posts: 1608
Originally posted by Ilja Preuss:


OK, thanks for the clarification!

Of course with a wiki, we can't possibly guarantee that all the content added by arbitrary community members is free of copyrighted material. The same, of course, is true for the forums. I'm not an expert in this matters, but it seems to me that if we react as early as we become aware of a copyright infringement, we should be pretty safe?


I have a mild understanding of the Copyright Act in my country (Australia) and even more mildy aware of the same act in the US. I am led to believe that under such a circumstance, you wouldn't be safe. Specifically, if copyright is infringed, and it costs the copyright holder $X, that copyright holder has a case. By reacting early, you (the copyright infringer) minimise the damages and show the court that you intend to comply with copyright laws (by responding to an allegation).

In this case, it can be formally put down to "JavaRanch (as I understand it) is non-profit, and probably infringing upon my copyright in this case, is not going to cost me money - at least, it would be difficult to prove. I understand that JavaRanch did not intend to malevolently breach copyright, but some other copyright holder might not understand that intent, and it may cost them money (trust me, I've seen it a few times now). Since I'm a nice guy, who doesn't really care too much, I'll just make it a point to be known."

In contrast, what I do care about is being notified of *my* infringement of copyright for work that I produced in 2002/2003/early 2004 that apparantly resembles a book that was released in June 2005 (and arrived in Australia in August 2005 - I received one of the first copies). This situation bothers me somewhat, especially when the accuser is in possession of evidence supporting my defense, but fails to investigate it before making the allegation - that's all a different story - this story is more of a friendly gesture.
http://jqa.tmorris.net/GetQAndA.action?qids=79&showAnswers=true
 
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