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I am just one of them?

Pooja Kumar
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 12
My situation is not a unique one.I am facing the same global problem of finding a job,as many are nowadays.
But I thought I might trigger this post on Javaranch to get some advice and suggestions.
I had a great software developer job in India,a promising career and I was a satisfied soul.
After I came to US,things are a bit different.I worked for 3 1/2 yrs in India and 6 months in US.Worked on 3 certifications also..to ensure things set right for me.But nothing worked...
I kept on loosing and loosing.I have been out of job for over 2 1/2 yrs,though initially I took a break for personal reasons.
Now I am doing MS(CS),another decision which I took to ensure that one day I will also have a small cubicle in one of those big companies......
I was on H1,but now I am on H4.Sometimes I get call from recruiters,but the moment they hear that I don't have an H1,they start their marathon....
It becomes very depressing sometimes.It is also tough to keep my morale and my hopes up.
Please suggest if I should keep fighting with my fate and keep believing that yes one day I will be a winner,or forget everything and dump all the hard work and efforts of my life.


SCJP1.2,SCWCD,IBM-XML
Derek Grey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 09, 2002
Posts: 204
Please suggest if I should keep fighting with my fate and keep believing that yes one day I will be a winner,or forget everything and dump all the hard work and efforts of my life.

I'd suggest the first one. The reason being ... how do u know when to quit??....one can quit only when one knows how far s/he is from success....and since u don't....u should not quit...coz success might be closer than u think it is.
But then again blindly following the same routine might not help either. Try being a little more innovative, think of some smarter solutions....it might take u days before u can find that ONE....so find a method to rejunevate your energy and enthusiasm to keep going on till u succeed.
I have been searching for the past 18 months. I have had 5 interviews in all...pathetic??....yeah....but then again I can't quit....coz who knows..the 6th one might be it .....
Cheer up.....and go full steam.
Al Newman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
Originally posted by Pooja Kumar:
My situation is not a unique one.I am facing the same global problem of finding a job,as many are nowadays.
But I thought I might trigger this post on Javaranch to get some advice and suggestions.
I had a great software developer job in India,a promising career and I was a satisfied soul.
After I came to US,things are a bit different.I worked for 3 1/2 yrs in India and 6 months in US.Worked on 3 certifications also..to ensure things set right for me.But nothing worked...
I kept on loosing and loosing.I have been out of job for over 2 1/2 yrs,though initially I took a break for personal reasons.
Now I am doing MS(CS),another decision which I took to ensure that one day I will also have a small cubicle in one of those big companies......
I was on H1,but now I am on H4.Sometimes I get call from recruiters,but the moment they hear that I don't have an H1,they start their marathon....
It becomes very depressing sometimes.It is also tough to keep my morale and my hopes up.
Please suggest if I should keep fighting with my fate and keep believing that yes one day I will be a winner,or forget everything and dump all the hard work and efforts of my life.

Well, you are pursuing an MSCS. Can you do it full-time and perhaps join a research project at your university?
Another possibility is returning to India and calling up your old bosses, contacts, whatever. resume your successful, happy career.
By all means don't give up. But sometimes reality hits you and tells you that your dreams won't happen immediately. Some dreams are best not fulfilled. I planned to get an MBA at one point, but a relative fell ill and I had to help out. Now I am very happy I didn't go for the MBA. I managed to do what I really wanted without the MBA.
BTW, what is an H4? Student visa?
[ August 19, 2003: Message edited by: Alfred Neumann ]

SCJP1.4, SCWCD
Al Newman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
Originally posted by San Tiruvan:

I have been searching for the past 18 months. I have had 5 interviews in all...pathetic??....yeah....but then again I can't quit....coz who knows..the 6th one might be it .....
Cheer up.....and go full steam.

Whew, guy. I thought I had it bad, but my job search was nothing by comparison!
I suggest both you fellows go to the public library and ask the librarian for a book titled Guerilla Tactics in the Job Market. It's a small paperback and you can read most of it in an afternoon. It's an old friend of a book which once helped me out of a jam as deep as yours seems to be. I still have a copy at home, and it helped me with my recent (successful) job campaign.
Good Luck, dudes....
Andres Gonzalez
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 1561
Guys, what's the difference between H1 and H4 (sorry for hijacking the topic)


I'm not going to be a Rock Star. I'm going to be a LEGEND! --Freddie Mercury
Derek Grey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 09, 2002
Posts: 204
Alfred,
Is this the book?
Al Newman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
Nope, it's this book (amazon.co.uk). Amazon.com has a link to a newer edition Guerilla Tactics in the New Job Market, but for some reason won't serve the page to me now.
It's out of print, so you either have to use the library or buy from a used vendor.
Arjun Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Originally posted by Andres Gonzalez:
Guys, what's the difference between H1 and H4 (sorry for hijacking the topic)

H1B is non immigrant visa valid for 3 years after which it can be extended for another 3 years(During which many obtain Green Card thats Permenant Residence).H4 is dependent visa i.e. generally used by H1Bs to bring their spouse 'on board'!!! .Legally H4 visa person can't work.Thats all I know.



MH
Pooja Kumar
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 12
Thanks San and Alfred for motivating me.
San,you are right,one does'nt know how far we are from success.Alfred,thanks for mentioning the book.
H4 is a dependant visa ,does'nt permit you to work.However on an H1 visa the person can work.
Preeti Ramesh
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 24, 2003
Posts: 18
Hi Pooja, I've been there so dont give up tho it can get depressing. Times are hard, and if you can't get a job, be creative
These are just a few ideas that crossed thru my mind when i was without a job for a few months (for work permit reasons) :-p
1. Take up freelancing as a full time profession. There are loads of requirements for freelancer. I am sure you are a great programmer, with so much of exp. But if u want to fly in freelancing, just pick up web design. Its not rocket science, great demand always, good money. I have ex-colleagues who work their regular jobs plus make $700 - 1000 monthly doing web design with some PHP, ASP, JSP thrown in.
2. Try free-lance consulting.
3. Contact smaller offices in India that are looking out for a pre-sales tech consultant in the US
Best of luck aur bhagwan pe bharosa rahko.
cheers! Preeti
Derek Grey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 09, 2002
Posts: 204
1. Take up freelancing as a full time profession. There are loads of requirements for freelancer. I am sure you are a great programmer, with so much of exp. But if u want to fly in freelancing, just pick up web design. Its not rocket science, great demand always, good money. I have ex-colleagues who work their regular jobs plus make $700 - 1000 monthly doing web design with some PHP, ASP, JSP thrown in.

That's a great idea. It would be more helpful if you give us some tips on how to get started.
Peekaboo Switchback
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 18, 2003
Posts: 33
See, it is not all that easy to be a dependent.
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2003
Posts: 715
Hi San,
If that is the route you wanted to pursue, then the you prepare to have an entrepreneur set of mind.
The following is something needed to have:
1. Create a professional looking website.
2. Have yourself a business cards.
3. Spread the words about your business plan to your friends and acquantainces for initial contacts.
4. Feel comfortable with cold call because you are going to need a lot of it.
5. Obtain a DBA from your local area.
6. Utilize your cold call skill for appointments.
7. Once have projects, then think about apply for SBA loans.
8. Start with the projects and at the same time increase your client base.
9. Need to have a professional clothings and a reliable business vehicle. Depended on state, some allows you to write off all of those expenses.
10. Familiarize with accounting process and tax schedules.
11. Hire reliable helper(s), if your budget allowed.
12. Update your website with new client names.
The above is very basic. But not many people succeed. The business plan is your own business; therefore, you have to work day and night including weekends. Once you have something like that in your profile and if one day you decide to work for a well established organization, the company president or CEO will come out and talk with you instead of those techies or "kitchen cooks". Sorry, if I offended anyone. But that how executives view us.
Good Lucks,
MCao
Derek Grey
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 09, 2002
Posts: 204
Matt,
Thanks a bunch for all the details. I really appreciate it. If nothing else works I might even get into something similar to that. I am ok with cold calls (shall develop along the way) and I have all the time in the world.
Pooja Kumar
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 12
Thanks Preeti .I really appreciate your idea.
Pooja
Michael Bronshteyn
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 85
San,
Try this book:
Getting started in Consulting by Allan Weiss, PhD
the book
As you get to Amazon, you will find similar books which would help you out. It is a complex thing to do and will take time. The books said that it should take at least 6 months before something positive is going to happen. I don't know if the figure needs to be adjusted for the current market.
In any case you can register yourself a small business and put it on your resume. It does not take much money and relatively easy to do. This way you can feel the gap of 18 months with something.
Good luck.


Michael
SCJP2
Tina Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
hey that is a real helpful discussion going on!
I always wanted to go for a business but then, dunno how..!
I still do not feel confident about it but feel like being on my own!
On the job front my exp in my resume looks like this-
1st company - 6 months
2nd company - 21 months
gap of 8 months
third company - 6 months
fourth company - 12 months
I really wonder if this will hamper my future
prospects of getting a job!


Alongwith being a good coder, try to be a good professional as well!
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by Tina Desai:

On the job front my exp in my resume looks like this-
1st company - 6 months
2nd company - 21 months
gap of 8 months
third company - 6 months
fourth company - 12 months

Admittedly, it doesn't look as strong as having worked continuouly at just one or two companies over the same period, but the trick is how you spin it (that's what cover letters, and later interviews, are for).
I've yet to work for a company for more then 2 years. In all cases they were startups and as the company grew, the direction no longer made sense for me and my career. In each case I spin the reasonf for leaving to be about looking for challenges related to what the job I'm applying for is about.
I also have a one year employment gap, after I left my job for a personal sabbatical. Of course, on my resume it doesn't look like much of a gap. There was a 1 month break, then teaching for a few weeks, then 6 months on the book, then a 2 month break. Spin!
Employers understand that many people are getting laid off these days just due to the economy (in fact, I assume most people who see my resume w/o the cover letter will just assume I got laid off). The question is, what did you do in that time. Fill it in as personal training and list what you studies or certifications you acquired. You know it's mostly BS (you weren't putting in 40 hours a wekk reading books), they know it's mostly BS; and yet it will look better then the other resume that just has an 8 month blank period.
Note: I never advocate lying, but I assume you did at least some studying/reading/learning during that time. Talk about what you did do.
--Mark
Preeti Ramesh
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 24, 2003
Posts: 18
Hiya,
In addition to the very useful info given by Matt, here are my $0.02
1. The areas / packages you need to be familiar with.
Web design - image creation / manipulation
- Dreamweaver / Frontpage
- Adobe Photoshop / Photo Pro (i think thats the name)
- GIF animator
- Flash is a *very* popular thing
- Javascript knowledge
- Some scripting knowledge (very easy to pick up, so u can easily learn it in an on-demand basis)
- Build up a good library of web icons and clip art (Dont have to buy these, LOADS of free clipart libraries are available on the net)
- Build up a rapoort with some web hosting solution and try and negotiate good rates (this is an impt area too, as smaller clients would expect you to handle all of this).
If you want to just test the waters, before making a full-blown investment, design a professional web-site and visiting card. Call up some relatives / friends who own their own business, go around in your area, to some of your regular shops and offer to put up a site for a really low cost (even free if you dont get a break). Think of it as an investment - you get to practice your work plus you can build up your client list.
A simple google search will throw up MANY freelance web sites. Here projects are put up by clients and freelancers can bid on them... the client then chooses which one he wants to award the contract to. Some site need you to pay a membership fee to bid on contracts. But some are free... so to start off with, you can register with the free sites.
When entering such a contract, always ask for an intital payment - maybe 50% of the total price - be careful not to get hood-winked and always sound professional n confident, like u have been doing this since u were born
Well, to all those who are taking up this route for various reasons - best of luck to all!
cheers! Preeti
-------------------------------------------------
Do you duty, leave the rest to God
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Al Newman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
Originally posted by Tina Desai:
hey that is a real helpful discussion going on!
I always wanted to go for a business but then, dunno how..!
I still do not feel confident about it but feel like being on my own!
On the job front my exp in my resume looks like this-
1st company - 6 months
2nd company - 21 months
gap of 8 months
third company - 6 months
fourth company - 12 months
I really wonder if this will hamper my future
prospects of getting a job!

Mark largely covered the subject of what to do, but I have a few things to add.
Firstly, don't worry about much long-term impact. Over time your early history matters very little. They usually really look over the past two years or so.
Personnel may care about the chronology but the people who really decide don't pay much attention to the dates. And you don't want to work with an organization where personnel hires the programmers. You really don't!
Unless you spend several years swapping jobs 3 times a year don't sweat it much. There are plenty of people who have done contracting who have resumes showing job changes twice a year, sometimes more often! When I look at a CV and notice a long gap anywhere in the 2001-2003 time frame (such as with Tim Holloway) my thoughts would be along the lines of "Bad time. Poor dude, he had a bad recession!". I might look to see where he was working before out of curiosity (Silicon Valley?).
Besides, I have an 8-month gap myself to explain away. Probably half the profession does!
Tina Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
hey Alfred thanks to you too!
did not see this thread again.
It is better to take the opinion of the ranchers. So many experienced ppl with wide range of years put in IT. Im really feeling less stressed after the replies of you two.
Thanks a lot.
Thanks and Regards,
Tina
 
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