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Help me against ASP

Balaji Loganathan
author and deputy
Bartender

Joined: Jul 13, 2001
Posts: 3150
Dear All,
I have to convince my boss to say that Java is good than ASP for our project.Please help me to add some VALID points both in business and technical point of view.
Something abt my project.
1.To provide to tool to create/edit/send/retrieve/process XML document.
2.Read XML document and store it in database.
3.convert XML into PDF/HTML/WML/Barcode.
4.Security,Authentication - Digital signature.
5.KISS
6.Targets SME's and developing countries.
Currently there is product which do the above process by giving less importance to XML.Its uses flash as frontend and asp as backend.my company wants me to re-design it to suits above reqt well.
PLEASE give me some tips.I couldn't able to jump between ASP and Java.This thread will also explain more abt my project replyed by Map,Frank,William..

Regards
Balaji


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Roseanne Zhang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 14, 2000
Posts: 1953
If you are not in a Java shop, ASP is definitely a better choice. Don't convince him!!
Roseanne Zhang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 14, 2000
Posts: 1953
Morally, you should choose the one better for your employer's business, not something better fit your own needs. Even I do understand your position...
Roseanne Zhang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 14, 2000
Posts: 1953
Microdoft XML parser is much much faster than any Java based XML parser, period. In addition, much easier to learn and use.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Java advocator, but not a blind Java advocator. Sorry, I do respect the fact, even I don't like the fact...
Visit JavaChina on the web
[ June 19, 2002: Message edited by: Roseanne Zhang ]
Balaji Loganathan
author and deputy
Bartender

Joined: Jul 13, 2001
Posts: 3150
Hi Roseanne,
I can understand ur suggestion and point.I can also understand howmuch u love java.(i too used ur site manytimes)Yes I too think abt using Asp than Java.
Some of things that forcing me towards java is converting xml to pdf is one of the important task,which is not covered by ASP.I read somewhere that i can use JNI to call FOP via COM component,which is something like roundabout.
Nextthing is I'm not able to use XSLT directly in ASP,like in XALAN,where i can give xml,xsl to a servlet on a URL.I found ASP.NET supports this,but I have to think abt SME's,It's always good to use free tool when the target is SME's and develping countries.Even though this is web project,it will shipped to group of client.Say africa,china,india etc.,
MSXML: Manytimes i'm forced to use output as IE only and not Netscape due to VBScript usage.Sometimes IE expects client to install MSXML,otherwise its not displaying XML with XSL.
Of all this the existing product was made with flash as userinterface,rewriting the whole stuff to suits HTML frontend is no good.FLASH is very slow.
Of all this ASP is good,easy to code,lot of built in objects,just call and use it.No tough configuration like Java.
BYWmhave u visited used this tool from www.asp.net really good.I think u know it.
Waiting for ur comments..
[ June 19, 2002: Message edited by: Balaji Loganathan ]
Roseanne Zhang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 14, 2000
Posts: 1953
I'm working in Java shop, however, our web components are targeted IE only. Netscape is actually out of the picture, since they do not meet w3c standard. Other browsers such as mozilla are good. We did not consider them probably for some economic reasons?
Our clients including China/Japan/India/..., Swissland/Spain/..., New Zealand, Mexico/US/South America/Canada, Africa... covers every continents on earth. If you potential clients are using solaris/hp-ux/linux/etc. different platforms, then you have a strong point to using Java against ASP...
It is your client and your boss' call. Good luck!
Roseanne
[ June 19, 2002: Message edited by: Roseanne Zhang ]
Jim Baiter
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 05, 2001
Posts: 532
I'm not altogether convinced of the scalability of ASP. My friend works a large site that uses ASP and he constantly is battling with ASP queuing issues. Also, if MS is so great, why did EBay make the switch to Java
Balaji Loganathan
author and deputy
Bartender

Joined: Jul 13, 2001
Posts: 3150
Hi Roseanne,
Thanks. My question is not related to platform,its abt how well i can achieve my reqt either with java or ASP.Please have a look and comment again.I still feel Java is good for this.May be after certain years ASP.NET will be good,but its still amature.I want to be fare thats the reason i'm asking here.
I would like know whether all your clients uses Windows platform or Unix.just FMI.
Hi Jim.,
Is your friend using XML for is project and is that reason he is battling with ASP. ?
BYW its seems ebay switched to ibm java for making business.
Regards
Balaji
Roseanne Zhang
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 14, 2000
Posts: 1953
What is FMI? Please excuse my ignorance.
Our large clients are Solaris/HP-UX, smaller clients are on Linux or Windows.
Don't make your decision based on who said what, do more research by yourself. Every decision is a trade-off, not all good, not all bad either. Make decision according to your business/clients needs, resources available, time-to-market, inventory of existed skills in shop, costs, etc. etc. The decision might not be the best, actually you might never know. Make the best of it, do your best!
Nobody here can make the decision for you. Don't take consensus. Most of the time, it will be misleading. I could mislead you too...
[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: Roseanne Zhang ]
Balaji Loganathan
author and deputy
Bartender

Joined: Jul 13, 2001
Posts: 3150
Hi,
Very nice reply.Making me to think,think,think and decide. :-).Well I do it.

FMI - A child of FYI
FMI-For my information vague isn't it
FYI-For your information

Regards
Balaji
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Given that this is a Java vs ASP question, the JSP forum seems most appropriate, I'm moving it there.
--Mark
Val Pecaoco
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 05, 2001
Posts: 156
Hi Balaji,
I've hacked ASP longer enough than JSP, even venturing to a kind of MVC involving C++/ATL objects (because VB/VBScript was soooooo boringggggg), and here are my opinions:
If you talk the kind of stuff of what these technologies can do (as far as your project is concerned), it will be a stalemate. It's because every imaginable thing that can be done with JSP can also be done with ASP.
But here's a catch: think of it in terms of the direction these technologies will take. M$ is now going full blast with ASP+, and their preferred language is C#, which is a clone of Java (any violent reactions?!). So whatever you pick, the reality is that you will do code on Java. So what do you prefer, the genuine or the clone?
And since ASP+ is a part of a larger agglomeration called .NET, I think if you go ASP+ you'll have (or your client) to purchase all those .NET servers (And there's about 10 of them? Uh-oh, maybe I've lost count...). Oh yes, you can still do it with ASP 3.0 and your Win 2K box, but how about next year, or the succeeding years perhaps?
And in my ASP 3.0 days, I've not come across any MVC framework that is being successfully used with ASP...and maybe perhaps ASP+. Unless I'm proven wrong.
But what I do love of ASP is that you can automatically access table indexes generated by SQL Server, and "Viola!", you have an instant database search engine. That is, if you'll use SQL Server I don't know if Jakarta's Lucene have any semblance of this capability, but I'll soon find out.
And yes, before I forgot: I didn't know how many countless times our then system administrator applied patches and service packs to our Win 2K Advanced Server, IIS, and SQL Server.
In parting, if you go JSP, Jakarta is a huge help. Because it's free.
GL
Ex Animo Java!
-- Val

---------------------------------------------
"In your anger, don't sin." (Ephesians 4:26)


"Knowledge is power, but enthusiasm is the key." -- Lavern Barn
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 15665
    
  15

1. Code Red
2. ASP ONLY runs under IIS - certain hacks notwithstanding.
3. The VB used for today's ASPs isn't the same VB as ASP.NET is using, so if you don't do ASP.NET, you'll have to convert
4. Myself, I'm holding off on .NET because it's still new enough that major upheavals are possible as they learn what is and isn't reliable, maintainable, efficient, and (ahem) secure. Also because one good antitrust judgement could possibly cause Microsoft to completely redesign parts of .NET. Remember, it took 3 tries for them to get WinCE right, and you probably weren't betting the business on that one.
5. Speaking of upheavals, Java's had a few, but the very compiler is designed to give you "breathing room" when something's no longer supported but you need to do a panic fix. IBM's been keeping support of obsolescent products since at least the '60's. Microsoft has generally taken the attitude of "oh, that's in the past. Forget it, we have MUCH better stuff now! Just rewrite it all."


Customer surveys are for companies who didn't pay proper attention to begin with.
 
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