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Jobs Pickup?

Al Newman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
I got a call from a London recruiter today who says that many of his moldy-oldy job reqs have woken up suddenly this week and are clamoring for people.
Anyone else seeing anything like this, especially employed folks? No offense, but recruiters try the employed people first, figuring on an easier sale to the client that way. So you might not start hearing for a week or two.........


SCJP1.4, SCWCD
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
It seems that the recruiters are starting to wake up from their hibernation. What that means in terms of real demands for IT we will see.


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Tony Collins
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2003
Posts: 435
Alfred you couldn't give me the name and meeting place of the Java User Group in London. I'm moving to Lewisham in the next few weeks and am looking to break into the Java/J2EE market in London.
I would be very gratefull.
tonycollins82@bigfoot.com
Tony
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2003
Posts: 715
Hello,
Probably in UK, US still have a long way to go.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/962192.asp
Regards,
MCao
Al Newman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
Try this, tony:
http://java.meetup.com/
Lewisham, Eh? South-east London if I don't miss my guess. Well, we tend to meet in the center.
Al Newman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
I had been getting traffic from recruiters throughout the summer, so the recent uptick isn't a surprise.
I'm working now and disinclined to change, but I told the recruiter that these outfits are going to have to consider people who have been unemployed for a while. It may be that the supply of programmers with fresh job experience is at a 20-year low because of the huge unemployment rate in the field. There are not that many perfect candidates, but I think many good ones. And these are likely to be motivated.
At a company do last week I ended up discussing this with the guy doing our hiring. He's only looking for the top candidates and having trouble finding them. I suggested looking for good software engineers and relying on them to pick up the skills OTJ or perhaps some training.
Going to be an interesting time. I don't know about that MSNBC piece, Matt, except to comment that the government (and media) are always several months behind what is actually going on. And that that story may have nothing to do with IT. After all, things seemed to be going well last year for the economy. But IT was dying....
Jonathan Hendry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 16, 2003
Posts: 32
Recently saw a news story saying that IT job advertising had increased, but IT execs didn't expect to increase hiring.
Which suggested to me that, perhaps, recruiting firms are running speculative ads, based on the US economy's performance and predictions that things will pick up in Q4. If they thought hiring would pick up, they'd start running ads to find candidates ahead of time.
However, their expectations may not be in line with reality.
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
My friends in IT and elsewhere are getting more interviews, so something is real (or companies are going to great lengths for a snowjob).
--Mark
Greg Neef
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 82
in SE USA I am seeing more 'applyable' ads / week than back in June by a factor of 2 or 3. Few are turning into interviews but the odds seem a lot better with 7/week than the 0-2/week I was seeing early last summer.


SCJP 1.4
Al Newman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
Originally posted by Jonathan Hendry:
Recently saw a news story saying that IT job advertising had increased, but IT execs didn't expect to increase hiring.
Which suggested to me that, perhaps, recruiting firms are running speculative ads, based on the US economy's performance and predictions that things will pick up in Q4. If they thought hiring would pick up, they'd start running ads to find candidates ahead of time.
However, their expectations may not be in line with reality.

Interesting. The company I'm working for got one large new project recently and didn't have nearly enough staff to cope. So they are hiring as fast as possible. I'm sure they didn't expect to be hiring this quickly 3 months ago.
Demand drives this entire thing. If demand picks up those IT firms will be hiring as quick as they can. I think it's going to be a sharp pickup in IT, more similar to the 1983 recovery than to the one in the early 90's.
Matthew Phillips
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 09, 2001
Posts: 2676
It seems to be picking up in the US as well. I've talked to a few managers at a users group meeting and they are starting to hire people again. It hasn't trickled down to the entry level people yet, but it will.


Matthew Phillips
Tony Collins
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2003
Posts: 435
Originally posted by Alfred Neumann:
Try this, tony:
http://java.meetup.com/
Lewisham, Eh? South-east London if I don't miss my guess. Well, we tend to meet in the center.

Yep , that's the place. I currently live in Toxteth, Liverpool, though England is becoming so divided I will have to move back to London.
I did work at Marconi, you wouldn't beleive the way that company operated.

Tony
[ September 07, 2003: Message edited by: Tony Collins ]
Al Newman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
Originally posted by Tony Collins:

Yep , that's the place. I currently live in Toxteth, Liverpool, though England is becoming so divided I will have to move back to London.
I did work at Marconi, you wouldn't beleive the way that company operated.

Tony
[ September 07, 2003: Message edited by: Tony Collins ]


England divided? In what way? BTW, I'm willing to bet that Toxteth is a lot more liveable than London is.
As for Marconi, I might well know what you mean. I'm ex-Nortel and did a Big-5 consultantcy gig after that. Someday I might go back to Nortel but never a big consultancy again....
[ September 08, 2003: Message edited by: Alfred Neumann ]
Al Newman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
Originally posted by Matthew Phillips:
It seems to be picking up in the US as well. I've talked to a few managers at a users group meeting and they are starting to hire people again. It hasn't trickled down to the entry level people yet, but it will.

I think a lot of managers have become perfectionists over the past two years. It's not enough that the candidate can do the job, they have to be practically perfect. It's a defense mechanism of a kind to protect them from the tsunamis of resumes hitting their desks.
But there aren't that many 'perfect' people out there. Most of us have a gap in our employment history. Some very good people have large gaps. The numbers of new entrants to the field has to be at a 20-year low, and many of the ones who have gotten in have been doing weird work. Because that is all that has been available.
They are going to need to shift gears. The low salaries currently on offer aren't going to inspire too many people to enter a profession in which one has to completely re-gear every few years.
Tony Collins
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2003
Posts: 435
Originally posted by Alfred Neumann:


England divided? In what way? BTW, I'm willing to bet that Toxteth is a lot more liveable than London is.
As for Marconi, I might well know what you mean. I'm ex-Nortel and did a Big-5 consultantcy gig after that. Someday I might go back to Nortel but never a big consultancy again....
[ September 08, 2003: Message edited by: Alfred Neumann ]

You'd be suprised how unliveable the North has become. To buy a flat in a good area of Liverpool your looking at roughly the same price as a flat in South London. You pay for not having burnt out buildings on your road.
On the other hand you can get 'Buy one get one free' houses in many areas. Two houses for around 10-15k.

Meanwhile all industry has died. Marconi-Royal Sun Alliance -Littelwoods - Swiss Life all gone or on their last legs, these jobs have been replaced by low quality service work. The best way to make money in the North of England is in the public sector.
BTW there are plans to move goverment ministries to Northern cities, things have got that bad.
On the other topic the money that was wasted at Marconi to boost the share price and get the directors their bonus was criminal, though fun for a while. We got flown to Dallas to play a game of five a side.
Tony
[ September 08, 2003: Message edited by: Tony Collins ]
Al Newman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
Interesting. I had an interview in Leeds this summer. I could easily afford to rent a semi in a nice area of town for well less than my skimpy terrace house in outer London. The salaries didn't seem much lass than in London these days, either.
Al Newman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
Originally posted by Sarada Bhasker:
I saw an ad for 'study at home plumbing course' in this week's computing magazine. What does this mean?

An opportunity for career change?
HS Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 3404
I did come across the following :
The Coming Job Boom
You need a subscription though.
regards
Tony Collins
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 03, 2003
Posts: 435
I don't think the salaries are much less but than London but the amount of jobs are few.
I think Leeds/Manchester are better(for work) than the rest of the North.
Greg Neef
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 82
this indicates a UK job pickup as well
What do we want? System Developers! When do we want them? Now!
Al Newman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
Thanks, Greg. I found the piece interesting as it agrees with my personal experience (that a jobs pickup began no later than Q2). I was getting quite a bit of unsolicited traffic. Salaries offered are still desperately low, so I forgot about money and just went for the best job I could find. I figure I can take another look once salaries head back up. In the meantime I'm accumulating valuable experience rather than sitting on my thumb....
In July, CWJobs' Q2 report found that there was evidence of a tentative recovery in the UK's IT jobs market with the number of contract openings on the up while permanent position are on the slide

This a little weird, because while this accords well with theory (that employers will be trying to limit their exposure in an uncertain rebound), I personally preferred a contract but was only able to find permanent slots (ones which appealed anyway). I could have had a contract with the firm which dumped me last fall as it turned out, but I knew too much about them to accept...
[ September 09, 2003: Message edited by: Alfred Neumann ]
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Well, it matches my personal experience too. I have been looking for some time, and I couldn't find anything untill end of August. And, as in the Register.co.uk article, permanent jobs are really going down, where are there is quite a few short term (3-6 months) contract popping up here and there (talking about Irish market, that is)
But, I am getting at least a couple of mails every week from UK agencies!!


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Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 15629
    
  15

Down in the Southeast U.S., I'm still not seeing anything but the same old slop adverts, and, if anything, less than 6 months ago.
However, at the same time, I now have a job and know of at least 2 more being created at my new employer, and that counts more than ads in my book.


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