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U.S. to Sharply Cut Number of High-Tech Visas

Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1896&ncid=1896&e=3&u=/nm/20030922/us_nm/life_usa_immigration_dc_4


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Al Newman
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Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
The companies seem to be like addicts. They lived with the 65K limit for years, then lobbied to triple it for a few years.
Now they find that they haven't invested in US citizen and green-card workers in that period and they are caught short.
Suggestion: invest in people you can employ?


SCJP1.4, SCWCD
Andres Gonzalez
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Joined: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 1561
Yup, good news for americans... but I guess they'd love to reduce the number to 0, which is impossible, IMO. It is a good start, though.


I'm not going to be a Rock Star. I'm going to be a LEGEND! --Freddie Mercury
Al Newman
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Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
Originally posted by Andres Gonzalez:
Yup, good news for americans... but I guess they'd love to reduce the number to 0, which is impossible, IMO. It is a good start, though.

It might be possible, but I think it is highly undesireabale to reduce the limit much more. Except on a very temporary basis, until the companies hire the unemployed Americans.
Until then I cannot take the injured cries of the Silicon Valley companies too seriously. The fact that they are moaning about their hurts while a lot of US high-tech workers are still unemployed does seem to support the argument that all these companies are after is some cheap labor....
Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
I agree with the reduction of H1B' visa limit, and I totally agree that there's no need for nearly 200,000 nwe foreign workers in America every year at this changed IT market.
But I wonder, wouldnt this give those firms yet another reason to off-shore their work?


[ flickr ]
Andres Gonzalez
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Joined: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 1561
Originally posted by Ashok Mash:
...
But I wonder, wouldnt this give those firms yet another reason to off-shore their work?

bingo !
Al Newman
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Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
Originally posted by Ashok Mash:
I agree with the reduction of H1B' visa limit, and I totally agree that there's no need for nearly 200,000 nwe foreign workers in America every year at this changed IT market.
But I wonder, wouldnt this give those firms yet another reason to off-shore their work?

A small one, perhaps.
Stephen Pride
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Joined: Sep 14, 2000
Posts: 121
Originally posted by Ashok Mash:
I agree with the reduction of H1B' visa limit, and I totally agree that there's no need for nearly 200,000 nwe foreign workers in America every year at this changed IT market.
But I wonder, wouldnt this give those firms yet another reason to off-shore their work?

Perhaps, but at what cost?
http://www.cio.com/archive/090103/backlash.html
A CIO at a famous Fortune 100 manufacturer has a recurring nightmare: As he continues to lay off American IT workers and move their jobs offshore to places such as India, never to return, American public opinion suddenly swings violently against globalization. He and his company are demonized, and Americans boycott his company's products. "Public perception isn't always accurate, but it counts for a lot of things," he says, after insisting on anonymity. "We don't want a situation where the public sees us as a malevolent force and takes it out on our products."


SCJP
Al Newman
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Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
A CIO at a famous Fortune 100 manufacturer has a recurring nightmare: As he continues to lay off American IT workers and move their jobs offshore to places such as India, never to return, American public opinion suddenly swings violently against globalization. He and his company are demonized, and Americans boycott his company's products. "Public perception isn't always accurate, but it counts for a lot of things," he says, after insisting on anonymity. "We don't want a situation where the public sees us as a malevolent force and takes it out on our products."

Yup. I hope that is exactly what happens to the companies who are liquidating entire IT departments and shipping it all off to India. The slant of this nightmare is that the 'public demonization' is irrational - but of course it is not irrational at all. Offshoring also ensures lower quality and less responsiveness to the market and to the customer.
A link to a CIO magazine story about an activist in Florida.
It seems as if a goodsized portion of the Congress has 'outsourced' their own function to offshore corporations. Witness Seimen's role in all this. Does Seimens act this way back in Germany? I would bet not....
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Originally posted by Alfred Neumann:

Offshoring also ensures lower quality and less responsiveness to the market and to the customer.

IF this is true then there should be no reason why so many companies are opening up the shops here.This activity is going on since early 90s.(the time economy was picking up)and late 90s(ecomony was good)I haven't seen any company has suffered losses and closed its operation.There may be some exceptions.


MH
Al Newman
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Joined: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 716
Originally posted by Capablanca Kepler:

IF this is true then there should be no reason why so many companies are opening up the shops here.This activity is going on since early 90s.(the time economy was picking up)and late 90s(ecomony was good)I haven't seen any company has suffered losses and closed its operation.There may be some exceptions.

Ah, yes. The Argument from Rationality. If it doesn't work the entire herd wouldn't be doing it.
Well. It does make sense unless you have seen as many truly dumb management decisions as I have.
Actually it's more nuanced than that. The early stages of any management fad tend to work, whether it's restructuring, resizing, offshoring, or anything else. Typically these early projects are executed by the cream of middle management, smart & experienced people who know their subject and who adjust to what they learn rather than strictly apply a formula. The IT staff in India are the creme de la creme. The projects work because the people are good.
When the results are broadly publicized the problems begin to emerge. First, the strategy becomes a formula. Second, the people executing the formula are usually (on average) not as good as the pioneers. Third, the resources being used become more scarce.
This only becomes worse as the trend becomes a fad. The decision to follow a strategy is often based upon nothing more than a popular book, without much thought as to how to intelligently apply the strategy. I read recently a piece which asserted that numerical goals (aka 'Offshore 30% of IT operations by the end of the fiscal year' was driving managers to offshore operations which were easiest to move quickly rather than the operations which made the most sense to do so. When this happens it is a sign that a fad is on it's downslide.
BTW, I have experience in offshoring, having worked in the mid-90's for an Italian software development firm which was a joint venture of two major telecoms firms, one in Italy and one in the US. The project delivered near-perfect software which worked precisely to specification. However, the systems were shelved after passing acceptance test because the world had changed and Video on Demand was no longer the flavour du jour.
I can speak directly to the communication problems between the two parties because I spent 8 months as the main liason between the Italian firm and it's US customer/co-owner on-site in the US. The plan was for me to support only one system but I ended up supporting both because the seat next to mine was a revolving door. The support job was basically undoable. I survived because I knew who was who in Italy and because I had cast-iron credibility with the Italian management. Their attitude was that if you had difficulty communicating with Neumann the problem was probably not Neumann. That credibility stemmed from an earlier project and is rare indeed. One other factor is that I could read and grok source code, indeed had designed and developed some of the subsystems myself. The documentation was only 30% there in the early stages and some of it was wrong. But source code never lies. How many people are you going to find like that? They don't grow on trees!
In the case of Offshoring we certainly have many firms which cannot effectively manage IT at home trying to do it overseas. Without actually managing the project themselves. That function is offshored also.
Second, let's look at the supply side. Early offshore projects had access to the cream of the Indian IT labor force. Today we see mass-hiring of warm bodies by Indian offshoring behemoths. Some of these behemoths are actually offshoring work to China to keep costs down. Double the communications problem, double the fun. I don't doubt the quality of the labor force has fallen, and training cannot take the place of experience.
A prominent Indian offshoring expert has predicted a series of 'train-wreck' offshoring projects in the near future, no doubt to preserve his credibility. But is that prediction easy to doubt? I don't doubt it. There will be successes also, of course.
[ September 23, 2003: Message edited by: Alfred Neumann ]
samuel kumar
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 10
Lowered H1B visa cap won't hit Indian IT industry: read the following link
please
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?msid=180184


I'm also known as,<br />Benny the Groin, Sammy the Schnazz, Elmer the Fudd, Tubby the Tuba ...
samuel kumar
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 10
Just the Current L1 visas are enough to make american job tougher. As they were 68000 L1 visas issued last year .
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Well, I guess its been discussed many times before, but I really think off-shoring is to stay in IT industry, against all odds!
Its India now, and a couple of years down the line it may be China, Brazil or any other country that manages to product a study supply of people with commonsense and language skills, because it always works out cheaper than executing the same work in the USA or other developed nations.
Just like how the manufacturing jobs left US soil, but the high-end, research and design (or fashion, in textile industry) still remain there, in IT industry as well, all the work that can be off-shored at low-risk (now thats debatable) will be off-shored, but the high-end part of IT, research, design, work that requires more client-employee interaction than PC-employee interaction would remain where ever the client base is!
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Alfred Neumann:
..Third, the resources being used become more scarce.
And thats when *they* move move out of India, and armed with experience of doing off-shore business, setup more off-shore centers everywhere else in the world - China, Brazil and elsewhere, except Iraq & Afganistan may be!

Second, let's look at the supply side. Early offshore projects had access to the cream of the Indian IT labor force. Today we see mass-hiring of warm bodies by Indian offshoring behemoths.
I agree. This might actually cause a number of problems, but that we shouldn't underestimate those who come out of universities every year, adding to the existing talent pool (and again, not just in India, globally!)
Pardon my random thoughts!
anurag priya
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Joined: Dec 19, 2000
Posts: 72
hi all !
first of all i want to clear one thing that i have no intentions to hurt anyones feelings !
I agree with Ashok ! and want to say just one thing that American techies will be benefited only if the outsourcing is also stopped ! i think number of H1B Visas reduction in a long run is nota good solution for Americans , as it will force the software firms to outsourse more in order to cut the cost in the current economic conditions , and once the jobs are outsourced they are totally out of The US forever .on the other hand If jobs are there in the US along with H1 visas still americans have some chance to compete with those who are availing H1 visas and i am sure the companies will prefer the localites more than the H1 sponsered candidates as visa processing is a time taking process as far as legalities are concerned . tell me whats the use of technical skills in america if the jobs are outsourced . so i think outsourcing is a bigger threat for Americans than that of H1B. Along with that i want to add one more thing that The US is known as a country which provides equal opportunities for all . dont you all think the whole scenario is going against the basic nature of a country ?
dont you all think if there will be no H1 visas no abroad student will be interested in persuing any studies in US ,specially heigher studies ,cause the cost of heigher studies is much more heigher than that of many other countries which can provide the same quality of education ? it will be a total change in the whole education system , economy and the open culture og The Great United States in a long run .
anurag.


Anurag priya
SCJP 2(83%); Brain Bench Certified for: Masters level EJB2.0(97%) - Masters level J2EE (83%) - BEA-WebLogic Application Server8.1 (86% )
Natalie Kopple
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Joined: May 06, 2003
Posts: 325
Be alert. Something unfavorable is developing. See below:

As FAIR has suspected for some time, the high-tech industry and immigration law bar would never sit still for a decline in the annual H-1B ceiling from 195,000 to the currently scheduled October 1 ceiling of 65,000. That mobilization has now taken place. Less than 30 days following a Senate Immigration Subcommittee hearing generally sympathetic to serious reforms in both the H-1B and L-1 visa programs, Senate Judiciary Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-UT) held a full committee hearing on "the importance of the H-1B program for the U.S. economy." Witnesses called for complete removal of the annual ceiling on the H-1B program and Chairman Hatch stated that unemployed tech workers should not blame foreigners for the loss of their jobs. He's right, the public in general and unemployed high-tech workers in particular should blame Senator Hatch and the rest of those in Congress who place cheap foreign labor ahead of the American worker.
FAIR has learned that in the next few weeks the Senate will move legislation to extend for another year the H-1B program status quo, but with an annual ceiling of 115,000 instead of the 65,000 level scheduled to take effect on October 1. The normally sympathetic House Immigration Subcommittee had planned to hold a hearing on reforms needed in both the H-1B and L-1 program shortly after the August recess. Unfortunately, those plans have been changed and no hearings are expected until sometime next year, when the scheduled 65,000 ceiling is nearly met, and maximum pressure to raise the ceiling will be applied.
Stephen Pride
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 14, 2000
Posts: 121
He's right, the public in general and unemployed high-tech workers in particular should blame Senator Hatch and the rest of those in Congress who place cheap foreign labor ahead of the American worker.

As most here probably are already aware, about the only way congressmen/congresswomen will sway their vote for their constituents (sp?) is if it benefits them. As an editorial that one poster here gave a link to alluded, once big business lines the pockets of your elected leaders, they will generally start ignoring what you have to say (unless, of course, you have deeper pockets). About the only other way you can get your leaders to listen is if their position is in any way threatened (e.g., a large percentage of their voting consitituents favor your stance).
What has always irked me is the fact that our government is so quick to point out corruption in other nations' governments, while it goes on in our very own. Maybe not to the same degree, but it still happens. I have a laundry list of other complaints, but I'll save them for another thread.
samuel kumar
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 10
fyi,

Half of these posts on this message board are posted by folks from india with a pro L1 and pro H1B intent. So be aware when you make judgements in your opinions.
Samuel
Natalie Kopple
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 06, 2003
Posts: 325
In the evening of 10/03/00, some 40 out of the total of 435 Congressmen/Congresswomen passed the Bill of raising the annual cap on H1-B visas from 65,000 to 195,000 by a "voice" vote. Here is the Congressional record:

Congressional Record article 45 of 50 Printer Friendly
Display - 6,849 bytes.[Help]
---------------------------------------
H-1B VISAS -- (House of Representatives - October 04,
2000)
[Page: H8782] GPO's PDF
---
The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. ISAKSON). Under a previous order of the House, the gentlewoman from North Carolina (Mrs. CLAYTON) is recognized for 5
minutes.
Mrs. CLAYTON. Mr. Speaker, I want to express my appreciation to the gentleman from Colorado (Mr. MCINNIS) and the other Members on the other side who are allowing me to proceed.
Mr. Speaker, last night, under the cloak of darkness, without notice, without the opportunity to participate by voice vote on an unwritten suspension calendar, after we had been told there would be no further votes
for the day, at a time when most Members had left the Chamber for evening activities, the House passed S. 2045 , legislation related to the increase of H-1B visas.
I was not necessarily opposed to the bill, formally entitled the American Competitiveness in the 21st Century Act. I was opposed to not having a debate about it.
But with such vitally important legislation, in an area of critical importance to this Nation, immigration policy, this House should have had a
chance to debate this matter, air the many views that emerged during the House committee consideration of a similar measure, and voted in the light of day on the bill.
It is wrong, Mr. Speaker. It is inexcusable. And the American people deserve to know what some in this House did. The Senate bill increased H-1B visas, in the light of day, to allow some 200,000 additional high-tech workers to come to America from other countries, to work over the next 3 years. I had amendments prepared to expand this legislation to provide these same employment opportunities and training opportunities to the United States workers in rural communities.
Professionals who work in specialty occupations are admitted to the United States on a temporary basis through the H-1B visa category, the largest category of temporary foreign workers. The increase was pushed by many in the business community, especially those in the information technology area, which is experiencing an economic explosion and unprecedented job growth.
The amendments I had prepared would have made sure that those living in rural America would have the opportunity to secure a position in this rapidly expanding job market before employers look outside the United States to bring in foreign workers. Not that we are against bringing in foreign workers, we just want the same opportunity for those who live in rural America.
The House Committee on the Judiciary marked up and reported H.R. 4227, the Technology Worker Temporary Relief Act. Among the many bills introduced, there were three others related to the same subject, increasing numerical limitations on H-1B visas, that also should be considered. Those bills were H.R. 3983, H.R. 4402, and H.R. 4200.
Despite the rosy economic picture in America, too many Americans are being left out. For those Americans, many of them living in rural America over at least a 20-year period, there has
[Page: H8783] GPO's PDF
been a troubling trend, a trend that affects the very quality of their life. During these 2 decades, income and wealth inequality, the disparity in income and wealth due to wages, accumulated wealth, investments and returns, have been well documented. It is an alarming and disturbing trend because among those rural Americans left behind, fewer can afford healthy
meals, fewer can afford health care for their families, and fewer can afford a college education for their children. It is an alarming and disturbing trend because rural America has been disproportionately affected. Consequently, rural America lags far behind other communities in personal access to the Internet as well as the total use of the Internet.
This disparity exacerbates the persistent poverty, high unemployment, inadequate health care and education resources. Thus, as the economy rapidly
expands, rural communities find that it is far more difficult to participate.
[Begin Insert]
Moreover, technological advances, which could provide some solutions to these conditions, elude rural communities because of digital disenfranchisement. Such advances as telemedicine, distance education and
electronic government, depend upon Internet access.
It is clear that the competition among service providers that is driving the Internet explosion is not as concentrated in rural communities. The lack of population densities, the absence of essential infrastructure and the fact that rural communities are often spread over great distances are reasons cited for this lack of enthusiasm. Even the Department of
Commerce has concluded in its Report, ``Falling Through The Net,'' that, ``Disparities clearly exist (and) ..... access comes hardest for Americans
who are low-income ..... less educated, single-parent families, young heads-of-households, and (those) who live in the South, rural areas and central cities.''
However, these barriers should not, must not remain as impediments. A rising tide should lift all boats. It is for these reasons that this House should have had the opportunity to debate, vote on and support amendments that would require education and training for American citizens who reside in rural and other depressed areas; amendments that would require both
public and private sector entities to make reasonable and diligent efforts to find American citizens who are willing to be trained in information technology positions; that would raise the H-1B visa fees; and that would use those increased revenues to, in part, carry out the other amendment mandates.
Mr. Speaker, this House has not had the will to pass a modest increase in the minimum wage, an increase to help move millions of America's workers out of poverty. But we did find the will to pass a bill that mandates that foreign workers earn a minimum of $40,000 a year. That is what the H-1B Bill that passed provides.
Late last night, Mr. Speaker, those who favor large business interests won. But, the American people, especially those who live in rural America, the many willing and able unemployed workers and this Nation, lost.
[End Insert]
It is clear, Mr. Speaker, that rural America indeed lost. In fact, the Nation lost. Indeed, I think we should make an opportunity for American workers as well.
[ September 25, 2003: Message edited by: Natalie Kopple ]
[ September 26, 2003: Message edited by: Natalie Kopple ]
Rufus BugleWeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2002
Posts: 1551
Half of these posts on this message board are posted by folks from india with a pro L1 and pro H1B intent. So be aware when you make judgements in your opinions.

I suspect India needs the blood sweat and tears of its citizens capable of competing in a global IT market. How can you turn your back on your homeland?
Delhi is considered one of the most polluted cities in the world. Jokes are told about children growing up here without knowing that the sky is normally blue.
...
The court then issued a series of orders to clean up the city of 12 million people, including one to stop industries from dumping untreated waste into the Yamuna River.
...
Indian studies found New Delhi has the world's highest concentration of airborne particulates. Carbon monoxide and nitrous oxide levels also are above acceptable limits. One in five residents suffers from breathing problems, compared to one in 20 nationwide.
...
So far he has survived the physical onslaught of raw sewage, rotting carcasses, industrial effluent, fertilisers and pesticides that infect the river from the Himalayan foothills to the Bay of Bengal.
Experts say pollution is to blame for a host of diseases - hepatitis, amoebic dysentery, typhoid, cholera and cancer - among the roughly 400 million people who live in the vast Gangetic basin.
Arjun Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
You are now encouraging people from Delhi to move to Detroit.Fact is all these 'factors' don't matter much in offshore development.Can you differentiate between the code of Windows 2000 written in Hyderabad and Redmond ? .Be real,Until currency ratio doesn't reduce,offshore development will continue to places where people are available with same quality.
[ September 25, 2003: Message edited by: Capablanca Kepler ]
Rufus BugleWeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2002
Posts: 1551
Be real,Until currency ratio doesn't reduce,offshore development will continue to places where people are available with same quality.

I agree with you offshoring, best snoring whatever you want to call it is inevitable in my mind. Competition might be fairer if some of the if all the competitors had more respect for the environment.
Accounting, legal and financial services are all going to have to compete. But they are enjoying a time lag.
I am against H-1B and L-1 visa abuse. By and large I believe in free trade. But the US has opened the boarder to IT workers that will work for less in the US. This is a controlled attack on certain professions. I have yet to see a police department, a hospital or a hardware store whose employess are 75% H1-B workers.
Open the border to anybody that will work for less in the US. I am willing to compete. Things will be different when every US citizen faces turmoil. Many of the free trader hypocrits on this board want controlled free trade.
On the other hand, IMO, Indians and US citizens both derived from people eminating from Africa so many thousands of years ago. Certain cultures have made different decisions than others. Do you believe that the air in Mumbia and the water in the Ganges reflect a people and a culture that makes good decisions?
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
On the other hand, IMO, Indians and US citizens both derived from people eminating from Africa so many thousands of years ago. Certain cultures have made different decisions than others. Do you believe that the air in Mumbia and the water in the Ganges reflect a people and a culture that makes good decisions?

Well, at least the smell of rotten human corpses that contaminates air in many countries around the world does not reflect Indian people and their culture!
I wonder why you explicitly try to attack Indians by making smart-ass comments on every possible occasion? If you are one the unfortunate, unemployed IT professionals in the USA, you should be ranting about the H1B system, not about a few Indian programmers who makes a living by working in America. Indians work hard, and hard thinking businessmen around the world takes advantage of this! If American IT professionals are in a sad state today, that’s not their mistake, neither its the mistake of Indian programmers out there!!
Well, I honestly dont know why am I spending my time replying to this rant! Peace!
[ September 26, 2003: Message edited by: Ashok Mash ]
sunitha reghu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 937

Well, I honestly dont know why am I spending my time replying to this rant! Peace!

I also thought i shouldnt reply to Rufus' degraded message. I have a que to you Rufus, suppose your boss gave the work you doing to your co worker , will you be mad at your co-worker or boss?
Accoring to the reports by next year 80% of CIOs will have marching orders to take some IT offshore because it will reduce the cost by 44% even if you say indian cities are polluted.
I have yet to see a police department, a hospital or a hardware store whose employess are 75% H1-B workers.

Around 20,000 nurses came to usa in h1-b.
Stephen Pride
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 14, 2000
Posts: 121
If American IT professionals are in a sad state today, that�s not their mistake, neither its the mistake of Indian programmers out there!!

Correct indeed! I would fancy to say it is the "mistake" of the foreign governments themselves. Its really no different than people from Mexico coming to the US to do physical labor. Sure, many more of them come here illegally, but the overall premise is the same: go in the direction of the money. Instead of helping to build an infrastructure that could benefit the entire homeland's economy in the long term, why not help ones-self in the short term? Although, for India's support, they are starting to provide somewhat of a better infrastructure (thanks mainly to US corporations). Now if they could only curb the corruption that goes on in their government, I think their economy would flourish 10-fold, and maybe one day find themselves in the same predicament as the US as well.
Bhau Mhatre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 199
If you are one the unfortunate, unemployed IT professionals in the USA, you should be ranting about the H1B system, not about a few Indian programmers who makes a living by working in America.
I don't know what was Rufus' intention here, but if you go through all the previous threads on this topic, you will notice that they, the americans, are infact mad at the continuation of the H1B program itself and their lawmakers, and are not particularly mad at the individuals benefitng from them. What irritates them imo (AND to me also to a great extent) is that some people who are supposed to be guest here demand that H1B is their right
Yes, we outsiders can request/lobby/persuade them for the program to be continued and point out wrongful information, if any, in their propaganda, but i think we have no business 'preaching' them how these programs will be good for them. (i remember there were a couple of posts like that before). And if history of economics is any evidence, their law makers are pretty much smarter then we would grade them. So let's leave it up to them?


-Mumbai cha Bhau
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Mumbai cha bhau:
So let's leave it up to them?

Thankfully, a breath of fresh air!
The topic here is the H1B program. At this point with so many American IT workers unemployed (and by "American" I mean both citizens and green card holders) that it makes no sense to invite more guests to the party. This doesn't mean that we hate people from India. It doesn't mean that in the future we won't ask you to come back. It simply means that right now there are not enough excess IT jobs in the US.
Frank Silbermann
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Posts: 1385
The temporary visas are key to outsourcing. The most difficult part of a software effort is learning the requirements. Companies planning to outsource need foreigners to come to the U.S. temporarily to learn the business being outsourced, so they can go back to their home countries to lead the outsourcing effort.
If you stop the H1-B visas, then you have to rely on American residents being willing to live in outsource locations for extended periods -- and those people are harder to find. Or, you do all of your management <-> developer communication electronically -- which increases the difficulty of the single largest project risk.
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Mumbai cha bhau:
So let's leave it up to them?

Can't agree more! If only everyone's as clear as Thomas Paul in this regard. (I still stand by my comment, which was about Rufus and others making remarks blaming/targeting Indians for their personal grief.)
IMO, outsourcing will level off sooner or later, when cost of doing business + risk involved in doing business/development remotely, matches the cost of doing business/development in the USA.
Yes, as Sunitha mentioned, there are other areas where H1B visas are being issued, but most of us wouldn't hear much about it as it has no direct effect on us. Those who want to rant about that as well should check out some medico-ranch or nurse-ranch!
[ September 26, 2003: Message edited by: Ashok Mash ]
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
subject: U.S. to Sharply Cut Number of High-Tech Visas
 
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