File APIs for Java Developers
Manipulate DOC, XLS, PPT, PDF and many others from your application.
http://aspose.com/file-tools
The moose likes Jobs Discussion and the fly likes Creative / Useful Ways to Find Jobs? Big Moose Saloon
  Search | Java FAQ | Recent Topics | Flagged Topics | Hot Topics | Zero Replies
Register / Login
JavaRanch » Java Forums » Careers » Jobs Discussion
Bookmark "Creative / Useful Ways to Find Jobs?" Watch "Creative / Useful Ways to Find Jobs?" New topic
Author

Creative / Useful Ways to Find Jobs?

Kelvin Hung
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: 29
Finding a job is hard. If you have successfully found a job, can you share your expereince? If you are still finding a job (like me), what methods you tried and work / didn't work?
Let's put the methods in bullets:
* Networking - I contacted my ex-superviors, co-workers, and friends. But it didn't work so far. Maybe my networking method is weak.
* Monster Network - I paid $25 (for 3 months) to Monster's networking service. It kinda work. The service allows you to search for people in your areas that meet your searching keyword. I contacted a Java programmer in my areas and he replied me. He was willing to give my resume to his company. But his company requires security check. I am not a US citizen, so I can't not qualified.
* Go to local career center - doesn't work. They don't have many IT jobs.
* Turned in resume in person - kinda work. I talked to the HR manager and got a phone interview the next day.
* Contact local staffing companies - I submitted my resume to them and talked to them in person. But all I can do right now is to wait. I guess I will call them every week just to make them remember me.
Kelvin
jyothi godavarthy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 135
Newspapers are a good source for getting good jobs.
jyothi godavarthy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 135
You can also post your resume on the numerous job sites, you will definetly get many mails and calls from many consultancies.
Jon McDonald
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 02, 2001
Posts: 167
Take a class or two at the continuing education division of the best university in your area, preferably a class in a field related to what you want to do. You will, more than likely, find people in the industry you wish to work in. Although in IT you're probably more likely to find these folks in the more advanced classes. From my limited experience, I was more likely to find someone who was already an engineer in a Web Services class than an intro to Java class . Just an idea. Also, you may have access to the universities career center.
Jon


SCJP<br/>
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 16305
    
  21

Ay-yai-yai-yai-yai!
Newspapers around here are useless. I only scan them to get a feel for the overall job market. Of the pitifully few ads running, you have your choice of web-page designers or lan-monkey/helpdesk.
Since education has been a poor way to get an IT software job since long before this (or several other) recessions began, I can say - backed up by actual experience - that the experienced people in class will be generally be unemployed.
Sorry. That's life in the USA.


Customer surveys are for companies who didn't pay proper attention to begin with.
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2003
Posts: 715
Hi Tim,
You speaking in the Whiteman POV, for the minority people usually the first thing of HR/Hiring Manager wants to talk to them is credential. Exception for the economy control power groups, that is, they have their own channels of supply and demand.
Hi Kevin,
Have you ever think that your networking of previous contact names do not like your chemistry? Networking is the most effective way and continue to build them. Do not relied only of previous contacts, they are not fresh. Mingle with those people in your favorite barbershop, church, party, etc. The objective let them know you are unemployed and you are a likeable guy.
Regards,
MCao
Jason Cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 287
I went through a period of unemployment not so long ago. The real frustration was when I woke up and realized I was searching for jobs all wrong.
Although this is difficult for your typical IT guy; socialize, socialize, and SOCIALIZE! Don't stop going to church or hanging out with your friends. Networking meetings are nice and all, but usually consist of people without jobs. Hang out with people who do have jobs and might be able to keep their ear to the ground. DO attend networking meetings, but DON'T make them the only time you network.
Networking is something you should be doing all the time. Don't make a big deal that you're out looking for work. Make people aware of it, but try not to make it the central focus of every conversation.
I know this is hard as well, but keep your chin up. If you walk around with a cloud of doom over your head, it WILL follow you into an interview. It doesn't matter how much you smile and act cheery, they will pick up on it. Stay confident and keep a positive attitude.
Take up jogging. Get in shape. Physical appearance is important. You don't have to be the cover of GQ, but I know guys who can't walk up two flights of stairs without getting winded. It's not so much about losing a gut, but behaving like you feel good physically as well as mentally. If you are in shape, don't let unemployment drag you down. Stay healthy!
Make a pest of yourself. Write down every person's phone number and call them regularly. Don't bother people who can't help you, but don't forget them either. Maybe they can provide details later. Even if you've been turned down for a position at a company, keep in contact with them. Just because they turned you down for one position doesn't mean you won't be a good fit for another.
Do NOT spend your days applying for jobs on the Internet. You can do that at night. Business hours may not apply to you, but the people whose attention you want to attract still go by them. Searching the Internet for jobs during business hours is inefficient use of your time! Not only that, but it represents a small portion of the actual job market. I think it's something like 20% of the actual jobs, and somewhere around 80% of the candidates looking for a job will apply for them. Would you play those kinds of odds in Vegas and expect to win? You do want to go ahead and apply, but you also want to maximize the time you spend on your job search. Your job is to get a job!
Update your resume on all the job search sites and do so at least once a week. The resumes updates most recently will bubble up to the top when recruiters do searches for candidates. A resume that has not been updated for a month will probably be found somewhere around page 23 in the search results. Although it's a longshot you'll get a job this way, it's still worth doing. I actually found my current position because I updated my resume on Monster.com and a recruiter found it the next day. I wasn't even looking for a job!
Dress nice even for third-party recruiter interviews. I can't believe how many people treat those as if they're unimportant. Recruiters aren't going to waste time on someone they don't think will make them money.
Kelvin Hung
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: 29
Originally posted by Matt Cao:

Have you ever think that your networking of previous contact names do not like your chemistry? Networking is the most effective way and continue to build them. Do not relied only of previous contacts, they are not fresh. Mingle with those people in your favorite barbershop, church, party, etc. The objective let them know you are unemployed and you are a likeable guy.

Here is how I network: call/email my co-workers/friends up and ask if they know any job openings. Usually they don't. Then I will ask if they can give me any referrals that I can contact (i.e. try to build the next network level). Usually they aren't able to give me any, but they would take my resume and said they would email to their friends. Some don't even take my resume and just said they would keep eyes open for any openings.
They are the people that I worked closely with before and they are very nice. But I don't think they would put any efforts to help me (I'm not complaining) since this is my business, not theirs.
As you said, I guess I need to ask anyone that I meet.
Jon McDonald
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 02, 2001
Posts: 167
Originally posted by Tim Holloway:

Since education has been a poor way to get an IT software job since long before this (or several other) recessions began, I can say - backed up by actual experience - that the experienced people in class will be generally be unemployed.
Sorry. That's life in the USA.

Guess I just have different actual experience than you.
There were several people in the classes I took that were unemployed, but there were also several that were employed. Most of the unemployed ones that I saw were not experienced, but then again, I didn't do some formal survey to get a percentage, and I didn't talk with everyone in the classes. The ones that were employeed were very helpful and willing to put me in touch with folks in their company and others if I was looking for a job.
One weird thing about the whole situation was this, I asked these folks if they knew of any job opportunities. Most of the time, these guys would come up to me over some beers after class and we would talk about school and our plans. They would then usually give me their cards and tell me that if I was ever looking for a new position in the area to give them a call.
I did notice a few of the unemployed guys were a little pushy, in my opinion, with asking other students about jobs. They didn't seem to get the best response. Quick tip, if you are meeting someone in class for the first time, asking them if they have a job for you shouldn't be the second sentence out of your mouth. Just my opinion.
Jon
Jon McDonald
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 02, 2001
Posts: 167
Originally posted by Kelvin Hung:

Here is how I network: call/email my co-workers/friends up and ask if they know any job openings. Usually they don't. Then I will ask if they can give me any referrals that I can contact (i.e. try to build the next network level). Usually they aren't able to give me any, but they would take my resume and said they would email to their friends. Some don't even take my resume and just said they would keep eyes open for any openings.
They are the people that I worked closely with before and they are very nice. But I don't think they would put any efforts to help me (I'm not complaining) since this is my business, not theirs.
As you said, I guess I need to ask anyone that I meet.

One thing I would recomend, expand your network. You have to meet more people. I know that when you are unemployed it is a HUGE blow to your self-esteem, and you probably have no desire to meet new people, especially those with jobs doing better than you. But you've got to press on.
I like to think of networking for jobs like dating . If I know 10 girls, and none of them want to go out with me, I know that I have to start meeting more people to get a date. Sure one of the original 10 might change her mind/break up with her boyfriend/know someone who is perfect for me. But in the mean time, I am goig to meet some more people.
Jon
[ February 06, 2004: Message edited by: Jon McDonald ]
Joy Jade
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 30, 2003
Posts: 81
Originally posted by Kelvin Hung:
Finding a job is hard. If you have successfully found a job, can you share your expereince? If you are still finding a job (like me), what methods you tried and work / didn't work? ...Kelvin

Advertise yourself here at javaranch. There are so many professionals participating here who might know someone who needs a guy with skillset like what you have. Or they themselves need a guy like you in their company.
Kelvin Hung
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: 29
Originally posted by Jon McDonald:

I know that when you are unemployed it is a HUGE blow to your self-esteem, and you probably have no desire to meet new people, especially those with jobs doing better than you. But you've got to press on.

That's true when I first got layoff: low self-esteem, don't wanna tell other people... but I got over it and turned this as a positive energy.
Look at this experience as the chance to "learn" how to find a job. Everyone, sooner or later, will face unemployment in their lives. If you can master the job seeking technique this time, you can use it over and over again in your life time.
And I use this chance to learn new technologies and put them in the resume.
I can't affort to take a class because I have no income now.
Although I am still looking, I feel that my chances are higher and I learn a lot more than before.

Highly Recommended
==================
Turn in the resume in person. I did that again today. I talked to the reception nicely and she let me talk to someone in the company. He gladly took my resume and he said not many people came to their company in person. We had a very nice conversation. So my resume passes hundreds of other email resumes and is being forward to the hiring manager. He also called me to ask more details after he looked over my resume.
Just remember to ask for the name of that person so that you can send a thank-you email afterward.
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
don't spend your days hunting for jobs on the web
Not quite correct. The job I landed in the end I applied early in the morning (showing I'm an early riser), got a call for an interview in the afternoon with the interview taking place 3 days later. Second interview was the week after during which I got offered the job after 10 minutes...
stay/get in shape, appearances are important
True, though it depends on the company I guess. The IT manager where I now work (as well as the HR manager) are big guys
Must be all the contacts with restaurant supply companies (which are an important market group for us)
The ad did say "Java programmer who knows his snacks", guess that says it all
Go to local career center - doesn't work
Takes a while, but did land me a parttime programming job that got me through 6 months looking for a permanent position.
Got several other offers of interviews through them after I'd accepted my current job (when of course I no longer needed them but still...).
Anyway, over here it's mandatory you visit them once in a while (especially after you've been unemployed for a considerable period) in order to keep your unemployment money.
Dress nice even for third-party recruiter interviews
Best advise there can be.
ESPECIALLY recruiters look more to dress than anything. And if you have time, check out the location of the interview beforehand so you know if they can see you drive up. If they can, clean the car inside and out because someone may just happen to walk past...


42
HS Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 3404
"Java programmer who knows his snacks",
So that's what "Java programmer who knows his bytes" means !
Kelvin Hung
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: 29
Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:

[b]Go to local career center - doesn't work

Aren't the jobs posted on the career center the same as what they post on its website (e.g. CalJobs)?
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2003
Posts: 715
Originally posted by Jon McDonald:

There were several people in the classes I took that were unemployed, but there were also several that were employed. Most of the unemployed ones that I saw were not experienced, but then again, I didn't do some formal survey to get a percentage, and I didn't talk with everyone in the classes. The ones that were employeed were very helpful and willing to put me in touch with folks in their company and others if I was looking for a job.

Hi,
During the initial meeting, people do measure each others out. I think because you are employed; therefore, your confidence show comparing to others.


One weird thing about the whole situation was this, I asked these folks if they knew of any job opportunities. Most of the time, these guys would come up to me over some beers after class and we would talk about school and our plans. They would then usually give me their cards and tell me that if I was ever looking for a new position in the area to give them a call.

The next phase is to see if the chemistry mesh. Do not think business card is that meant you are half way there. They want to see how do you measure up in their control environments.


I did notice a few of the unemployed guys were a little pushy, in my opinion, with asking other students about jobs. They didn't seem to get the best response. Quick tip, if you are meeting someone in class for the first time, asking them if they have a job for you shouldn't be the second sentence out of your mouth. Just my opinion.

Yes, it should be handle with tact you certainly do not create a toxic networking environment that is ME, ME, and ME. People should said: "I am unemployed currently and I hope with the knowledge that I learn here will improve my chances." You could improvide the wording based on specific situation.
Regards,
MCao
[ February 07, 2004: Message edited by: Matt Cao ]
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2003
Posts: 715
Originally posted by Kelvin Hung:

Aren't the jobs posted on the career center the same as what they post on its website (e.g. CalJobs)?

Hi,
This is internet. Not everyone live in California, you have to find out by yourself.
Regards,
MCao
Matt Cao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 03, 2003
Posts: 715
Originally posted by Kelvin Hung:

Look at this experience as the chance to "learn" how to find a job. Everyone, sooner or later, will face unemployment in their lives.

Hi,
Not everyone, only some people, I never have true unemployment by definition most of the times are I set my goals to my superiors, if I cannot measure up, I will resign. But in the end because of my honesty/integrity, the companies usually torn up resignation letters and gave me the laid-off paperworks to sign in such way I could collect unemployment benefits. They alway throw me a farewell party even the company presidents gave me their business cards.


I can't affort to take a class because I have no income now.
Although I am still looking, I feel that my chances are higher and I learn a lot more than before.

Did you know you can take class while you are unemployed and make the government paid for it as long as the courses not gearing toward higher echolons such as you are undergrad trying to take courses for grad? Find out from any public the schools, they should know it.

Highly Recommended
==================
Turn in the resume in person. I did that again today. I talked to the reception nicely and she let me talk to someone in the company. He gladly took my resume and he said not many people came to their company in person. We had a very nice conversation. So my resume passes hundreds of other email resumes and is being forward to the hiring manager. He also called me to ask more details after he looked over my resume.
Just remember to ask for the name of that person so that you can send a thank-you email afterward.

It is great if you are live within the perimeter. I am used to advice folks this way too. Until, I face the situation of security fortress companies.
Regards,
MCao
Kelvin Hung
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 15, 2004
Posts: 29
Hello,
Originally posted by Matt Cao:

true unemployment by definition

I think there are two main reasons you seek a job: unemployed (layoff or resign) or you want a different job while you are working. So I think I should say people need to seek new jobs sooner or later in their lives.

Originally posted by Matt Cao:

It is great if you are live within the perimeter. I am used to advice folks this way too. Until, I face the situation of security fortress companies.

That's true. In that case, I would mail a hard copy to the company.
Kelvin
Jason Cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 287
Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
don't spend your days hunting for jobs on the web
Not quite correct. The job I landed in the end I applied early in the morning (showing I'm an early riser), got a call for an interview in the afternoon with the interview taking place 3 days later. Second interview was the week after during which I got offered the job after 10 minutes...

But did you apply during business hours? I think that's the key. I tend to focus more on nighttime activities since I'm not much of a morning person. I don't even want to reveal my daily coffee intake.
That said, it's not that applying on-line during the day is worthless. I know I wasn't out EVERY day. Gas does cost money after all.
On the other hand, you are more likely to get results by applying late at night or early in the morning. Send a resume at 2pm is likely to get it buried before a recruiter ever looks at it. Most of the ones I talk to only review resumes when they get to work in the morning.
Although one does have to ask if they want a lazy recruiter looking for a job on your behalf, but that's worthy of an entirely different topic.
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
subject: Creative / Useful Ways to Find Jobs?