So I've gone through a set of interviews, and was awesome if I say so myself. I wrote the UML/System Development Lifecycle test and faired well from what I can tell. Now they're checking my references... I just wanted to know if in your experiences, reference checks were like a rubber stamp in the hiring process. Do they only check your references if "you da man"??!! crossing my fingers, Jamie
Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed: Direct or Contract?
full time, direct. This is as close to a "job for life" as one can get! Not to mention top notch benefits including full health and extended health, pension, free tuition for my family in any undergraduate program ( at Lakehead University, Thunder Bay, ON... for better or for worse! ), and the building is brand new state of the art. I'm pretty pumped, to say the least. These types of jobs are hard to find at the best of times, in the best of places, so you can see why I'm pretty pumped to find an excellent opportunity like this, with the economy in a slump, in a small Northern Ontario city! Jamie
The only times I have had people check my references was right before I got the job. I would imagine that this might change as you go for higher level positions though - it might be worth checking references on the top 3 candidates in case that weeds someone out. Slightly different, but similar: I can imagine that in the near future (if not already), resumes will be checked for validity at an early stage in the selection criteria (make sure you really earned your doctorate at MIT). Since there are companies you can outsource to who will check this, it makes sense to get rid of blatant liars first. Good luck. Regards, Andrew
I always check references of everyone. I start by calling the college to confirmt he degress, and then one or two companies they worked for to confirm employement. Then I talk to references. When I give references, after I tell them how great the peson is and that I'd hire them again, I do also mention weaknesses, e.g. "very strong technically, but often doesn't appreciate the business motivations," or "goes off and does more than you asked, but sometimes gets lost in the technology and gets off focus, so checkpoint him often to keep him on track." I say this after I'm sure they like the candidate and the reference, and do this is a tip to the next manager. --Mark
Joined: Feb 22, 2002
Contractors will check before they submit you. If it's direct I think they weed out on the top three. I am with you, this is a positive sign. They are spending money on you.
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg: I always check references of everyone. I start by calling the college to confirmt he degress, and then one or two companies they worked for to confirm employement. Then I talk to references. When I give references, after I tell them how great the peson is and that I'd hire them again, I do also mention weaknesses, e.g. "very strong technically, but often doesn't appreciate the business motivations," or "goes off and does more than you asked, but sometimes gets lost in the technology and gets off focus, so checkpoint him often to keep him on track." I say this after I'm sure they like the candidate and the reference, and do this is a tip to the next manager. --Mark
Note to self, never use Mark as a reference!! I'm sure that your advice is well spoken and eloquently fit in to the conversation, but any non-positive comments may scare off would scare off potential employers as it is highly unusual to hear anything non-positive in a reference check. Jamie
let me add that if you are asked on the call, then you can't lie, but don't just come forward with non-positive information as it sounds like you are warning them or something!
Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Thus far, for the dozen or so people to whom I've given references, all have been hired, so I don't think I'm doing any damage. One other note, when used as a reference, I don't give out info unless I'm expecting the call. If Joe from company XYZ calls me about Bill, and Bill didn't tell me about company XYZ I won't say a word until Bill authorizes it. It could very well be that Joe (or whatever his real name is) is trying to get info on Bill for unknown purposes. --Mark
Hi, On the same topic, I have a candidate that I like, but the references are out of wacks. One of the previous superiors is on exile, yet HR confirms the time candidate with the previous companies. The other one demotes and ultinately moving on to other fields. The company executives are HMMM about it. I want to give the candidate three months testing water. But those secretaries mention something that I take heart such as I turning down other favorites for the this one. Regards, MCao
what about reference and recommendation letters from previous companies and university professors? are they any good
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Originally posted by Billy Tsai: what about reference and recommendation letters from previous companies and university professors? are they any good
Hi, It is depended on the local practice. In Taiwan, yes. Those references are considered along with others school projects, etc. In US, university professors letter of recommendation is valuable. But the recommendation letter from your previous employers are no good since the dot com days because the US Supreme Court ruled that those letters are subject of an individual perceptions they are not warrant as yardstick to measure a candidate performance nor attitude. So most companies in US are not taking those recommendation letters from previous employers into account. Regards, MCao
The HR department for the company I used to work for gave specific instructions not to say anything regarding a former employee, except to confirm or deny that they were employeed there. They explained that it had to do with the potential of being sued by a former employee for saying negative things about them. Is anyone else's company doing this? Jon
"I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
When I've checked references, it's only been on the top candidate after we were pretty sure we wanted him or her. The thing about references is, they tend to say more about the person giving them than the person they are about. Some people will give perfectly honest references - similar to Mark, but not even saving the bad stuff for last - and some people will only say the good things, no matter how bad the person is. References are mostly only useful for weeding out candidates who are flat out lying about stuff, and hoping you don't check their references ("Er, huh? No, he never worked here....") In academia, references may be more important, though.
Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Originally posted by Jon McDonald: The HR department for the company I used to work for gave specific instructions not to say anything regarding a former employee, except to confirm or deny that they were employeed there. They explained that it had to do with the potential of being sued by a former employee for saying negative things about them. Is anyone else's company doing this? Jon
A major corporation (one you would have heard of) had this same policy. Whenever anyone was asked for a reference, they would give the company policy, and then add, "...but I can give you my personal assessment of the person," and then give a personal (i.e. not corporate) reference. --Mark
I wonder how they'd check references for me... Of my last (and only) 3 employers 2 no longer exist (one went bankrupt with the CEO fleeing the country and the other was taken over by IBM where they're now just a small wheel in the corporate whole and they likely have no record of me as I never worked for them (and my employment with the previous company ended more than 5 years ago which is usually the time records are kept). So that's 2 companies out of 3 they can't check. The third exists still and they liked me, but would that be enough?
Post Dot-Com, references and background checks have become very important to hiring BDMs in the know. In the boom years, there were alot of "fluffers" running around as well as upstarts trying to enter the profession for the lure of cash rather than disciplined committment to the body of knowledge. Background checks are inexpensive and easy to do and the number of firms offering this as a service are growing. The benefit of these services firms is that they consolidate all of the metrics and can issue a single, unified report that includes education credentials, national and county criminal and court records checks as well as credit. Yahoo Hotjobs has a nice service for this that is cheap, you can get a complete dossier for about $100 and you can control who gets to see it and for how long. I invite all of my prospects to background check me as I have nothing to hide. I also respect people that require this since I know that the likelihood of me having to work with a BS-artist or con-artist is lower. If you've ever had to work with someone that uses lies to cover up for their incompetence, or worse, weasels you into doing THEIR work for THEM - you know how important it is for your sanity to keep these mentalities out of the workplace. It's all about a civil workplace and enjoying the company of likeminded peers - not having to enable and accomodate others' dysfunctionalities... When I interview for work, I carry a portfolio dossier with me. This includes my diploma, all certifications as well as a notarized copy of my criminal record check that indicates "All Clear". If I show this to a prospect, I also invite them to conduct their own background check anyways to satisfy their needs. I have nothing to hide. -- Jim