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Discrimination or overreaction?

Jesse Torres
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Joined: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 985
I know that this might be a taboo topic; nevertheless, I believe that I should write about discrimination. You see I have a BS in Computer Science, 18 months of experience, and several certifications: SCJP, SCWCD. Unfortunately, I have applied to at least 100 openings on Dice.com, Collerecruiter.com, Monster.com, etc, and I have only had one interview. The interviewer took a look at me and immediately asked me if I was married. When I said yes, he abruptly ended the interview. I sent him a thank you letter, on the same day of the interview and received a rejection letter 3 days later. Keep in mind, that I have tailored my resume and cover letters, to each job posting. I actually have had help with resume / cover letter and interview skills, from my school�s career placement department. I have had several mock interviews over the past year. According to my school, my resume / cover letter, and interview skills are excellent. Yet I have only had one interview, which went bad.
I will not list my ethnicity since you can conclude it on your own, based on my name. I need help. Am I being discriminated against because of my ethnicity or am I overreacting? The reason that I ask is the following, I have many Caucasian and Asian friends who have either recently finished school or have the same amount of work experience as I have and already have multiple job offers. I also have Caucasian and Asian friends who were laid-off, with the same amount of experience that I have, and they immediately found jobs. In fact, they remained laid-off for 3 months at the most, while I have been out of work for over a year now, and counting. My friends and I, employed the same job search tools. On several instances, we were referred by friends for job opening with large companies. Naturally, my Caucasian and Asian friends at the minimum had job interviews while I didn�t have anything.
Am I being discriminated against because of my ethnicity or am I overreacting? I�m sorry to ask again. If I am overreacting, please explain to me why I�m not receiving even a single phone call, while my Caucasian and Asian friends are receiving calls and offers.
Sorry for the topic.
Jeffrey Hunter
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Joined: Apr 16, 2004
Posts: 305
I can't say I completely understand your position, since I'm just a generic white kid, but I do know that I haven't seen much discrimination among my friends (and I'm down South).
  • A hispanic friend of mine got hired a few semesters ago by Harris Corp. in South Florida.
  • A Turkish friend of mine got hired in NYC about 2 months after graduating with a BS in CS
  • An oriental friend of mine is getting an interview with Xerox in NY in the next couple of days

  • So as you can see, quite a diverse lot and they've all gotten hired. None of these guys have certifications either.
    I can say one thing -- beware of those online job applications, I've never had success with them. Alot of SPAMMER companies will simply post positions to build their database of potential employees and they don't even have the common courtesy to send a receipt confirmation. One, super-bright programmer I knew applied to a large aerospace company and they never even contacted him. We came to find out that these idiots were spamming the newspapers and job search engines with ads, but they were not even hiring anyone. Just "scouting" out the job pool I suppose.
    Jesse Torres
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    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    Thanks for your advice.
    Sadanand Murthy
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    Joined: Nov 26, 2003
    Posts: 382
    Jesse, in your post you mentioned that one interviewer terminated the interview abruptly after finding out that you were married. That, to me, sounds discriminatory. I don't know what recourse you may have other than filing a complaint with EEOC. I don't know how difficult proving your case will be.


    Ever Existing, Ever Conscious, Ever-new Bliss
    fred rosenberger
    lowercase baba
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    Joined: Oct 02, 2003
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      16

    If you are in the U.S.A., you should check your rights. A potential employer is NOT ALLOWED to ask you if you are married, have kids, what disabilities you might have, etc.
    Now, I am not a lawyer, and cannot give you legal advice. But i remember, from when i was an assistant manager for a retail bookstore chain, very explicit warnings about what can and cannot be asked.
    I know that's not much help... in fact, it's no help at all. If an interviewer asks you a question like that, you have to weigh the benefits of answering vs. your legal rights. But you should be aware of them.


    There are only two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors
    Jesse Torres
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    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    It is discriminatory in the state of Illinois for employers to ask about one's marital status, during an interview. I contacted the city of Chicago and deciced against pursuing legal actions. Nevertheless, I did file a complaint. My main question is that I have friends (Caucasians, and Whites) who either have just finished school, are about finish school, or have the same experience that I have (18mos) and have multiple offers.
    I on the other hand, can't even get an interview. I applied through my school's e-recruitment to numerous job postings, and not once received a response. On the other hand, I have a Caucasian friend (with the same experience that I have) who posted his resume on Monster.com, and he received multiple interviews within a week, which led to 3 job offers. I on the other hand posted my resume on Monster.com, and never, not once received a call. In fact, I actually applied to many job posts and not once received a response.
    My question is this, am I being discriminated against because my name is not John Smith or Joe Chang? I don't mean to offend anyone.
    Jesse Torres
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    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    Yes I am in the U.S, in fact I am in Chicago and I am an American Citizen, born in Chicago. Sorry for not mentioning that information before hand.
    Thanks to you all who have posted replies, thanks for your help. It seems that the only minorities that are considered for IT positions are mainly Asians and Indians (I am aware that Indians are Asian, I just wanted to differentiate). Am I overreacting? I used to work, during my school years, for FedEx as a delivery courier and I delivered to many businesses, whose IT department was mainly White of course (with a large number of Asians and Indians).
    Jeffrey Hunter
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Apr 16, 2004
    Posts: 305
    ...he received multiple interviews within a week

    When was this? I think nowadays this is rare. Every job I've ever gotten was through knowing people, or knowing people who know people. Maybe in your situation, and I'm certainly speculating here, the online job search is not your best option because they are only seeing you in black and white, and, as you say, maybe they don't like what they see. Of course there are companies which discriminate for one reason or another, and there are companies that do not. I think the former are a dying breed, if for nothing else, it's legally dangerous.
    I'd recommend building a software portfolio, possibly posting it on the web, and contacting companies by looking up the recruiter, or HR person directly. Get some personal contact going.
    Jesse Torres
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    Thanks Jeffrey for your advice. You provided a great explanation.
    I actually don't have a software portfolio, I probably need one.
    Thanks again,
    [ April 22, 2004: Message edited by: Jesse Torres ]
    Rufus BugleWeed
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Feb 22, 2002
    Posts: 1551
    IMO it is not race. They certainly would discriminate on you if you're married. They are looking for people to go on what Youdon calls a Death March, a project which is underfunded, understaffed or probably both. He claims they are the norm. They are looking for people to spend their waking hours in the office.
    Then again you don't mention if there is any other experience on your resume. If you are over 30, that is not well received either.
    frank davis
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Feb 12, 2001
    Posts: 1479
    Originally posted by Jesse Torres:

    Am I overreacting? I used to work, during my school years, for FedEx as a delivery courier and I delivered to many businesses, whose IT department was mainly White of course (with a large number of Asians and Indians).

    Years ago I knew a Hispanic lady with just a few years experience in COBOL who got phone calls all the time from recruiters, and she claimed the extra attention was due to her ethnicity (which some recruiters admitted). I've been on several job interviews where hints have been given that if I had been a minority I would have gotten the job. My last 2 jobs (govt) I've been in groups that were 70-80% women with women supervisors. Many larger companies and govt agencies are discriminating in favor of minorities and women. Many positions here in South Florida have been openly advertised indicating that you will not even be considered unless you are very fluently bi-lingual (native) meaning that unless your name was Torres or something similar you will never get an interview. My point is that any discrimination today could just as likely be in favor of minorities as against them in the IT field with the various affirmative action programs in place.
    As far as the numbers go, you may look at various IT firms and see a lack of minorities, but its been my experience that minorities and women are disproportinately not enrolled in IT classes so of course overall there will be some lack of representation in the IT field.
    [just noticed this on drugereport.com regarding how minorities are treated by some govt agencies - http://www.local10.com/news/3030870/detail.html]
    [ April 22, 2004: Message edited by: herb slocomb ]
    Rufus BugleWeed
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    Joined: Feb 22, 2002
    Posts: 1551
    IMO, if you were a brother, it would be a slam dunk.
    Jesse Torres
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    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    Thanks Herb for your input. However, preferential treatment probably exists in every state in the U.S. Unfortunately, it is not helping me out in any way, shape, or form. Thus, proving that Affirmative Action doesn�t necessarily mean that all minorities are given an extra hand.
    Let�s put things into perspective, A company has a quota to hire 5% African Americans, 5% Asians, and 5% Hispanics, and the rest White. What if the company has already hired its 15% minorities, and I a Hispanic come along and apply for an open position, am I going to be shunned away because they have met their minority quota, even though I am highly qualified? Or are they going to give me a shot to compete?
    Since my lay-off, I�ve had two job interviews. In both interviews, the other applicants that were with me were all minorities. So as much as people like to complain about affirmative action, I believe that in essence it hurts minorities in the long run. We should all compete for open positions, regardless of race.
    Jesse Torres
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    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    I forgot to mention that recently a friend of mine who is a Filipina, internally submitted my resume to her company, a Fortune 500 Company (whose name I will not disclose).
    I promptly received a call from a manager who was also a Filipina. I guess she theorized that since the person submitting my resume was a Filipina, and my last name was Spanish, I was probably a Filipino.
    During the call, the manager spoke to me in Tagalog (Filipino language). When I told her that I didn�t understand her, she asked me, �Aren�t you Filipino?� I replied, no. She immediately proceeded to ask me to tell her my ethnicity and how I knew the person who submitted my resume. I can�t file a complain because the call was an informal favor that my friend had arranged; networking. After I responded to her question, she ended the call. Suffice to say, I didn�t hear from the company.
    Jesse Torres
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    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    I'm now convinced that, here in the Chicago area, Hispanics aren't really considered for IT. Maybe companies believe that the smartest minority IT individuals are Indians and Asians. During my undergrad CS classes, I could count the Hispanic CS students with my fingers.
    If you have experienced any type of discrimination or reverse discrimination, please share it with us.
    Thanks,
    [ April 22, 2004: Message edited by: Jesse Torres ]
    frank davis
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Feb 12, 2001
    Posts: 1479
    Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
    Let�s put things into perspective, A company has a quota to hire 5% African Americans, 5% Asians, and 5% Hispanics, and the rest White. What if the company has already hired its 15% minorities, and I a Hispanic come along and apply for an open position, am I going to be shunned away because they have met their minority quota, even though I am highly qualified? Or are they going to give me a shot to compete?

    No, I don't think you understand how affirmative action works at most places. There are goals (not really quotas) they try for, but that is a minimum, NOT a maximum. The HR dept and managers are not restricted in how many minorities they can hire. In fact, going well over the goals/quotas would be recognized as an achievement for them and would give them a career boost and its something organizations brag about. Another thing is that there is never a quota for white people, they can hire zero and everyone will applaud them for their actions.
    frank davis
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    Joined: Feb 12, 2001
    Posts: 1479
    Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
    I forgot to mention that recently a friend of mine who is a Filipina, internally submitted my resume to her company, a Fortune 500 Company (whose name I will not disclose).
    I promptly received a call from a manager who was also a Filipina. I guess she theorized that since the person submitting my resume was a Filipina, and my last name was Spanish, I was probably a Filipino.
    During the call, the manager spoke to me in Tagalog (Filipino language). When I told her that I didn�t understand her, she asked me, �Aren�t you Filipino?� I replied, no. She immediately proceeded to ask me to tell her my ethnicity and how I knew the person who submitted my resume. I can�t file a complain because the call was an informal favor that my friend had arranged; networking. After I responded to her question, she ended the call. Suffice to say, I didn�t hear from the company.

    I've heard of a similar thing happening with an Asian person giving preference to Asians. Discrimination of this type is one the most disgusting things I can imagine. It divides people and causes suspicion, mistrust, anger, and resentment.
    Jesse Torres
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    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    Thanks Herb for your clarification on Affirmative Action.
    Thanks again
    frank davis
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Feb 12, 2001
    Posts: 1479
    Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
    I'm now convinced that, here in the Chicago area, Hispanics aren't really considered for IT. Maybe companies believe that the smartest minority IT individuals are Indians and Asians. During my undergrad CS classes, I could count the Hispanic CS students with my fingers.
    If you have experienced any type of discrimination or reverse discrimination, please share it with us.
    Thanks,
    [ April 22, 2004: Message edited by: Jesse Torres ]

    Why do you say "Hispanics aren't really considered for IT" ? Is that because they hire very few Hispanics? If so, there is also the fact you mention that few Hispanics are CS students so there are few to hire, correct? But you could also be correct; these things are hard to know with certaintity.
    Amongst other jobs, I believe I experienced discrimination in applying for my prior job. I applied for several jobs at the same time at this govt agency and during the interview I mentioned that I had applied for another position (with same agency and dept). The person interviewing me said in effect, "Oh, you couldn't have applied for that other position, if you had we would have interviewed you because you are so very well qualified". She did not know that I had recevied a postcard from the agency indicating they had received my application. Someone in HR refused to schedule me for an interview for that position. Later I learned and came into contact with a minority less capable than I who had been hired for that other position. I know you can poke holes in my theory and come up with other explanations, but other experiences and policies with that agency over the next year lead me to believe that it was an affirnative action type policy that prevented me from being interviewed for that other job. Later this same agency began giving job preferences to bi-lingual programmers which was rediculous.
    Jesse Torres
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    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    I guess Affirmative Action causes reverse discrimination against non-minorities. I have a friend who is Caucasian, applied to work at FedEx, since he needed extra money for school, and was told that he was overqualified. Yet FedEx hired a large number of African Americans that only had a High School Diploma, and no other experience.
    Yes I understand that Hispanics represent a significantly small percentage of students enrolled in IT related majors. Nevertheless, the few who are in IT, shouldn�t be shunned.
    Maybe in Florida, are Hispanics given preferential treatment for IT. But not here in the Chicago area. I say this with conviction because I know of several Hispanics, born here in the US, who struggle as I do to secure employment within IT. By the other side of the token, I have various Caucasian, Asian, and Indian friends who don�t really struggle.
    I strongly am against affirmative action. I believe that people should be given a chance based on their skills and not their ethnicity.
    frank davis
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Feb 12, 2001
    Posts: 1479
    Originally posted by Jesse Torres:

    Maybe in Florida, are Hispanics given preferential treatment for IT. But not here in the Chicago area. I say this with conviction because I know of several Hispanics, born here in the US, who struggle as I do to secure employment within IT. By the other side of the token, I have various Caucasian, Asian, and Indian friends who don�t really struggle.
    I strongly am against affirmative action. I believe that people should be given a chance based on their skills and not their ethnicity.

    Perhaps we should exchange geographical locations
    Like most fair minded people, we agree skill should count more than anything, but since some people do not think this way our only hope is raise our skill level even higher than the competition. But IT field is difficult now, many people out of work now far more skilled and experienced in more important technologies than myself
    Jesse Torres
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    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    If you have experienced any type of discrimination or reverse discrimination, please share it with us.
    Jeffrey Hunter
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    Joined: Apr 16, 2004
    Posts: 305
    I strongly am against affirmative action. I believe that people should be given a chance based on their skills and not their ethnicity.


    At the risk of offending the minorities, I believe Affirmative Action is crap and causes more harm the good in the long run. Yes I personally have experienced reverse discrimination. For instance, in my previous career (and a previous life almost, since I hardly recognize myself when I look back), I was in law enforcement. I graduated from the University of Florida with a BA in Criminal Justice. I applied to one specific department, a department which I interned with my senior year and developed a good relationship with one of the detectives. He was a old-timer, so he knew the intricate details of the department's underbelly. Suffice it to say, the department kept applications in three piles:
  • black
  • white
  • other

  • Now, I went through the application process and waited...and waited. Meanwhile, I came to find out that a black male had been hired. The interesting thing about it is, this black male had failed the polygraph portion of the application process. Specifically, the polygraph showed he was being deceptive about drug trafficking (cocaine). Needless to say, this kind of nonsense was happening all the time, and it led to huge morale problems in the department.
    I went on to get a job somewhere else, probably for the better because if I was there, I'd likely be sitting behind a desk being pissed off about such blatant discrimination.
    I can go on and on about the discriminatory shit that went down in this department, but I'll save that for another thread.
    Rufus BugleWeed
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    Joined: Feb 22, 2002
    Posts: 1551
    In all honesty Jesse, it's a bad labor market unless you are in the sweet spot, just the right leading edge skills and 3 to 5 years experience.
    Big name school could help. Did you go to Champaign-Urbana or NorthWestern?
    You are SCWCD. Do you have struts, jstl, junit and log4j on your resume?
    Are you currently working an open source project?
    Being laid-off is a terrible mark on your resume, too. They run on rules of thumb. One of them is if you arr unemployed, you are tainted material. They don't know if you are a thief, a drug user, a fighter, a malcontent, a slacker, or something else. They believe anybody good is working or knows somebody that will get him hired on.
    There are no contrarians or value investors in the labor market. They simply can only hire the top 20%.
    [ April 22, 2004: Message edited by: Rufus BugleWeed ]
    Jesse Torres
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    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    I went to DePaul University in Chicago and yes I am currently doing self studying on Struts right now.
    Jesse Torres
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    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
    I went to DePaul University in Chicago and yes I am currently doing self studying on Struts right now.

    Any advice on open source projects?
    Jason Stull
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Feb 02, 2004
    Posts: 47
    Hi Jesse,
    I also work in the Midwest. At bigger corporations, I've seen more of an openness to hiring "minorities" (whites are now statically a minority). The problems I see, at least in my locality, are with small companies, especially well established ones in the 'burbs. A lot of the people running these places have kooky, old school race fear. I don't think they want to be racist necessarily, but they can't seem to quell the fear that has been taught to and bred in to them. I come to this from lots of observation. So my advice, for what very little it is worth, would be to focus on large corporations or small/medium companies closer to the urban core. In theory, they should be more progressive in their hiring practices. Sorry if I've offended anybody with my observations. In fairness, I'm another white joe who works in the 'burbs. Additionaly, the advices on a software portfolio, learning hot technologies like Struts, and getting involved in an open source project, are spot on. I would add some kind of volunteer experience, maybe even something where you mentor kids in technology, to that list.


    "I believe in coyotes and time as an abstract Explain the change the difference between What you want and what you need there's the key"
    Jesse Torres
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    Thanks Jason for your observation.
    It does make sense actually. My first job out of school was for a large corporation (whose name I will not disclose) in the Chicago Northern Suburbs. I and another fellow were the only Hispanics amongst a predominantly White work force across all disciplines (98% White if I had to guess). The only minorities within the IT department were of course Asians and Indians. As a result, (well I have now concluded), employees stared at me as if I were some kind of an alien. For example, when a manager asked me to ask the DB department for a routine installation of DB2 on my work-provided laptop, they game me an extremely hard time. They wanted to clarify budget constraints, speak with the CIO, that sort of stuff. Yet, when my White co-worker asked for the same installation the day before, the DB department installed it right on the spot. Additionally, he didn�t know anyone from the department.
    Imagine, if affirmative action didn�t exist. Then these companies would get away with discriminating against all minorities and hiring only their peers. Chicago indeed is a very racist city, according to statistics it is the most segregated city in the US, �till this day. And when managers see my name on replies to job posts, they probably say �this guy needs to get serious and work in a factory, or landscaping, corporate America is no place for this guy.�
    Yes I do understand that some companies do hire minorities in Chicago, but in IT, it is mostly Asians and Indians that are hired.
    Matt Cao
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Apr 03, 2003
    Posts: 715
    Hi Jesse,
    My suggestion is developed your own logistic system based on your practical knowledge. When applying for jobs, uses it as your bargain leverage. All companies have the logistic systems, even the financial companies.
    Forget about affirmation action craps. You will be succumbed into into the vortex of hatred. I have been working with affirmative action companies in the past, I only see more tribes developed among colleagues. The incompetence individuals happened to belong to the favor/well connected groups, will be treated like a Godsend. Not very productive environment at all.
    Regards,
    MCao
    Matt Cao
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Apr 03, 2003
    Posts: 715
    Hi,
    FYI. Indian is Asian. India geographical is located in Asia continent. Indian is considered White race just because their ancestors chose to live so darn closed to the equator.
    Regards,
    MCao
    Jesse Torres
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    I did specify that I am aware that Indians are technically Asian. Nevertheless, I am differentiating between Indians and other Asians (Chinese, Filipinos, etc).
    Jeroen Wenting
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Oct 12, 2000
    Posts: 5093
    reverse racism (minorities being openly preferred over whites) is rife (though not as bad as a few years ago).
    Used to be unless you were black you couldn't get a government job here...
    There's still targets every company must meet or face penalties (unless they can show figures stating the required number of blacks just don't exist with the required education).
    Non-white recruiters (and others in such positions) preferring people of their own ethnic background is extremely common. If a white recruiter would show the same preferences (s)he's be branded a Nazi, if you're not white you can do what you want and noone bothers (least of all the authorities).
    Remember the highschool kids who wanted to start a whites-only society to protest against blacks-only and hispanics-only student societies?
    They were ridiculed and threatened to be thrown out of university for being racist while all they wanted was to start a student society no different than those others except for the colour of their skin.
    Such is today's society in both the US and Europe.
    You're Hispanic. Make use of that.
    You were turned down because you were married, not because of race (unless the recruiter was black, there seems to be dissent between blacks and hispanics in many areas).
    That's illegal too, as was the question.
    Reason is likely that they don't want you to go on maternity leave in a few months or have to leave strictly on time every day to make dinner for the husband and kids.


    42
    loni silverstein
    Greenhorn

    Joined: Jun 20, 2003
    Posts: 14
    How about changing your name, at least on the resumes? Have you thought about that? Play them, don't let them play you. All I can say is it worked for me
    Jesse Torres
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    Hello silverstein,
    What can I change my name to? (sorry for ending my sentence with a preposition)
    Suggestions please? What if I obtain a job offer with the dummy name, won�t it hurt my job offer chance?
    Thanks
    Jon McDonald
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Sep 02, 2001
    Posts: 167
    Hey Jesse,
    I'm also from Chicago, so I am familiar with the market here. I just had a few quick questions for you:
    What year did you graduate? How long ago was your last job? What was that position (software developer, tech support, sys admin)? What type of jobs are you applying for(software developer, tech support, sys admin)?
    The thing about Chicago is that most of the jobs on dice and monster are looking for people with 3 or more years of experience. If this is the majority of your search strategy, that could be why you are having problems. Also, if that 1 year unemployement gap is on your resume, you are looked upon more negatively. What I would recomend would be to go to company websites and apply there directly. Also, tailor your resume to each company. You won't be sending out 100 at a time, but you will get a higher response rate.
    Jon


    SCJP<br/>
    "I study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to study mathematics and philosophy in order to give their children a right to study painting poetry and music."<br />--John Adams
    Jesse Torres
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    Jeroen if you go back and read my first message on this thread, you will realize that this discussion is not about my only interview, in which I was asked about my marital status. Instead, this discussion focuses on discrimination. I know that it is taboo to engage in a discrimination discussion in corporate America; nevertheless, I feel that unfairness is a topic that shouldn�t be swept under the rug and forgotten.
    You see, I mention on this thread, again I ask that you go back and carefully examine this thread as a whole before you commit false assumptions, that I applied / was recommended to several job postings. I also mention that Asian, Indian, and Caucasian friends of mine also applied to these job postings. Yet they received interviews at the least and some even went on to receive job offers. I on the other hand, didn�t even receive a call; not even one call. Keep in mind, again please read the thread carefully before once again committing false conjectures, that my some of my friends received job offers while others at the minimum received a phone call interview.
    Before I engaged in submitting my resume to numerous places, I visited my school�s career center. There, I was tutored on how to create a successful resume / cover letter (tailored to each job posting). I even participated in numerous mock interviews, w/ professional recruiters (who volunteered their time to my school�s career center). Additionally, I received help from friends on my interviewing skills, resume, and cover letter skills. Still I only received one job interview.
    Again, this thread is not about the one interview. You see, I have many Filipino friends who have helped me with Tagalog (Filipino language) I learned it enough to hold a conversation. So I decided to put it on my Monster Profile to see if it would increase my chances for employment. I thought maybe employers will think that I am Asian. Sure enough, I received a phone interview, based on my first submission. Then I went in for the job interview. Immediately, the interviewer stared at me in a very suspicious manner, as if he was expecting an Asian. The first question was, �where are you from.� I answered, �I was born and raised in Chicago.� He then asked me, �In which neighborhood of Chicago are you from.� I will not conceal what I said here. He then asked me, �are you married.� I said, �yes.� He then asked me, �what three words would your wife use to describe you.� I answered that question, while correlating the response to my skills. He then spent 1 minute describing the company and job. Then he stood-up and said, �that is all.� So as he was standing, I asked him if I could ask a question. He said go ahead, in a very disturbed manner, as if he were bothered. I asked him one question and after he answered the question, he once again stood-up and this time, headed for the door, even faster. I sent him a thank you letter, within the hour. Finally, I received a rejection letter, the next day. The interviewer was Caucasian. Furthermore, the phone interview, which was held the day before, went phenomenal. The phone interviewer said that I was a perfect match. Again, this thread is not about this interview. Instead, it is about my conclusion that racism is still thriving in corporate America. Racism is alive and well. Strong as always.
    You may argue about reverse discrimination. However, carefully read the thread and you will notice that this discussion isn�t about reverse discrimination. In fact, I despise affirmative action, reverse decimation, and all other forms of discrimination. Actually, when I worked at my first professional job after school, many Caucasian workers, suspiciously asked me how I had been hired. I as a minority had to prove my existence, while my Caucasian college recruits didn�t.
    I am aware that reverse discrimination exists. Remember, I worked for FedEx, during school. In the month that I was hired, FedEx hired me, and about 99 African Americans. I am not lying. My friend who was White was turned away because he was told that he was too overqualified. Yet they hired people, well I won�t even dwell. Even I who worked at FedEx, had a hard time, getting hired. However, a friend of mine, pulled some strings to get me hired. He actually had to jump several obstacles just to get me an interview. Yet they were hiring complete strangers, just because the hiring staff was African-Americans and the applicants were also the same race. It�s as if FedEx was on a rampage to hire as many African-Americans as possible.
    In summary, racism is alive and well and I have experienced it from many avenues. I despise affirmative action, of any kind. People should obtain employment, based on their skills and expertise, not on the color of their skin.
    Jesse Torres
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    Jeroen, your comment, "you are Hispanic make use of it", is ignorant. That would be parallel to me saying to you, "You have a brain, make use of it, and read the thread more carefully before making uneducated assumptions."
    Jon McDonald
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Sep 02, 2001
    Posts: 167
    Originally posted by Rufus BugleWeed:
    IMO, if you were a brother, it would be a slam dunk.

    If by brother you mean black, I would beg to differ. There was a study put out by professors from University of Chicago and MIT which show that people with white sounding names have 50% more call backs than people with black sounding names when both resumes list similar credentials.
    Jon
    Tim Holloway
    Saloon Keeper

    Joined: Jun 25, 2001
    Posts: 16065
        
      21

    Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
    Hello silverstein,
    What can I change my name to? (sorry for ending my sentence with a preposition)
    Suggestions please? What if I obtain a job offer with the dummy name, won�t it hurt my job offer chance?
    Thanks

    Well, you could always LEGALLY change your name to something like "Jeff Towers". It's a fine old American tradition (Jack Palance, for example, was born with the name of Palanchevski). Oh wait a moment - this is Chicago you're talking about. Try something Polish. Of course, if you have an accent, that's only a limited solution.
    I'm a little perturbed, though, since Chicago has been, to my eyes, a better job market than most over the last 2 years. Then again, I didn't have a whole lot of success getting interviews either. In my case, it's too much experience (but not the 12 years of J2EE they demanded
    ).


    Customer surveys are for companies who didn't pay proper attention to begin with.
    Jesse Torres
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Mar 25, 2004
    Posts: 985
    Hello Jon McDonald,

    I graduated on June 2001, w/ a BS CS. It took me a while to secure employment. I started working for a large company in the �Burbs on January 2002. I was then laid-off on July 2003. I worked as a Web app Developer, utilizing Java, J2EE, DB2, Websphere, etc.
    I�m applying through many resources for positions that require 2 or more years of experience. I obtained SCJP / SCWCD to compensate for my lack of experience. I am applying for Web app developer positions.
    Here is the funny dilemma that I am faced with, since I don�t have 2 years of experience, I�m not considered for those positions. Since I have 1 � yrs of experience, I�m not eligible for entry level work. In essence, I�m in limbo.
    I have applied, to every conceivable company, via their website. I have tailored my resume / cover letters, to no avail. Not one response. I�m actually open to entry-level work at this point, the only thing is that companies will shun me because of my 1 � yrs of experience.
    What should I do, what am I doing wrong? I know that it is a tough job market, but what am I missing?
     
    I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
     
    subject: Discrimination or overreaction?