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I Must Vent It Out!

JiaPei Jen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 19, 2000
Posts: 1309
I know it is still employers' market. I know the recruiter who I am working with gets paid by the hiring party. But, it is sometimes unfair to job seekers -

This recruiter had a lengthy talk with me, asked me all kinds of questions, and presented my curriculum vitae to a company.

I was only told it is a Java job. I asked the recruiter for details of the skills requirements because there are many different components of the Java technology. He was not able to tell me anything. Then, I asked if there is a job description. He said that he did know if he could manage to get it from the company before the scheduled phone interview. I then asked about the company, how many people in that company he had ever talked to, and who they were. This recruiter said that he had talked to a couple of people in the company and did not tell me anything about those people.

I started feeling uncomfortable with the scheduled phone interview ...

This recruiter said that he wanted to cancel the scheduled interview because I did not have a positive attitude toward the interview. He must protect his client from my attitude. (He is "speculating" what I am going to say at the interview.)

Do people suppose job seekers do not have "rights" to choose employers? Do people suppose it is job seekers' "obligations" to be selected? Do people suppose only employers have to be protected. Do people know in fact job seekers need protection from potential misuses, abuses, and mismanagement?

Some time ago, I happened to know a company's own recruiter very well. After she left that company, she told me that she was not honest about the company in front of candidates while recruiting.
Dushy Inguva
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 24, 2003
Posts: 264
Yepp.. I feel the same way.

Basically, ure alone. And have to do it on your own. Its ok if some "sick" consultants want to protect their clients. They are basically trying to protect their own butts.

Dont let anyone take you for a ride and dont get desperate. (Easier said than done)

Dushy


SJCP, SCBCD, SJCD, SCDJWS, SCEA (Part I)
M Monroe
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 7
Wow, that is really pretty low. Some of my experiences w/recruiters are where they asked me if J2EE was even Java and when I specifically asked, what do I need to review for the interview they said everything...as of course you, I and everyone knows J2EE technologies are quite vast and working on an n-tier w/in a team your are specifically designated to a very detailed task vs. the entire architecture.

What gets me is some of these recruiter's do not even have a technical background and have no idea what they need to specifically look for in a consultant or future hire for the client.

Good luck and keep the faith! It is tough, I know and I myself am just about frazzled w/the whole Java/J2EE job hunt senerio.

MM
[ June 26, 2004: Message edited by: M Monroe ]
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by JiaPei Jen:

Do people suppose job seekers do not have "rights" to choose employers? Do people suppose it is job seekers' "obligations" to be selected? Do people suppose only employers have to be protected. Do people know in fact job seekers need protection from potential misuses, abuses, and mismanagement?


Of course you don't have rights.

You really need to understand who recruiters are. First, they have a dual agent role, protecting the interests of both parties, and there can be comflicting interests. Good recruiters (I work with some, but they're rare) recognize that although the company pays the money, the candidates are a key part to receiving that money, and want to maintain good relationships on both sides. Those who are in it for the short term, need only protect the company.

More generally, who is a recuiter? Some stranger you met online, and know nothing about. And yet you trust this person to help you find a job--a job, where you'll spend 1/3 of your adult life. You tell him things about you, your strengths and weakenesses, your salary info, etc. All this to a stranger.

Be careful.


--Mark
Rashmi Banthia
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 22, 2003
Posts: 79
Here are my thoughts, or I can say I am also venting out :
I agree with M Monroe, recruiters have got no clue about technology. They think If I have worked on PB5.0, I cannot work on PB6.0 or vice versa. SQL is different than Sybase - SQL, SQL Server, Oracle -PL/SQL : makes me wonder ?

I also had similar experience as mentioned by JiaPei Jen, I was not told who the client is: I would get information about the client only if the client company decides to interview. Well, I need the job and I did not make any fuss/argue about it. Client didn't select my resume and no point me asking who the company was. Recruiter told me he needed to protect the information etc.

Now I am doing volunteer work on sourceforge.net, Recruiters do not understand this. I guess word 'volunteer' is not in there dictionaries.

Good Luck!
Rashmi
Mike Gershman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2004
Posts: 1272
There are reasons that a recruiter might refuse to talk about the hiring company.

1. He may be concerned that you will contact the company directly.

2. He may not want other recruiters to know about the opening.

3. He may want you to ask your questions of the company employee during the phone interview.

Doing a telephone interview is no big deal. This is a seller's market and you should only push back to protect your own interests.

BTW, employers these days are purely focused on what you worked on lately, not on what you know, so they are not looking for you to study for the interview.


Mike Gershman
SCJP 1.4, SCWCD in process
Wai Hung
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 23
However, knowing who is the hiring company is important.
I'm not working with only one agency, so before they send my resume to the company. I have to make sure my resume has not been submitted by another agency, otherwise, the company will find me unprofessional by submitting resume twice (or more).
Tim Baker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 04, 2003
Posts: 541
Well the original poster just sounds like he had an experience with a very poor agency staff. I know first hand how annoying agencies can be, but I've never had much of a problem with them being unwilling to talk about the job. Even if they can't talk about the company, they usually have a blurb job spec they can read out, even if 90% of it is crap, it's still useful. If someone refuses to tell you anything about the job, tell him you don't think he is a very good agent and you'd rather he didn't contact you again unless he is willing to give at least some detail. If you think there is a possibility of the job being suitable then let your CV go forward, you can always pull out later if the company aren't suited. Ask which city the employer is in and you can usually stop from getting dual submitted for the same job from the very basic details. The main reason companies instantly throw out dual applicants is because of the legal issues of dual representation. If they employ you, who gets the agency fees? If you think they don't know much about the job / company, ask if they have been contacted by the company to submit applicants or if they have just seen an advert themselves in the paper and are gonna just blindly send off CVs.


Kim Jong II (North Korea's Dear Leader) said:Nuclear weapons don't kill people, people kill people.
Don Stadler
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 10, 2004
Posts: 451
Originally posted by JiaPei Jen:


I started feeling uncomfortable with the scheduled phone interview ...

This recruiter said that he wanted to cancel the scheduled interview because I did not have a positive attitude toward the interview. He must protect his client from my attitude. (He is "speculating" what I am going to say at the interview.)


Some times you get things like this, Jiapei. I usually take the phone interview and look at it as a freebie. With that little preparation I'll usually blow the interview of course. Not a problem because I don't take it that personally. Nor is there any preparation-time of course.

In times like these the customer makes the rules. I do my best on the phone and try to learn something from it.

Doing interviews like this can be a great way to develop savoire-faire and poise!
[ June 28, 2004: Message edited by: Don Stadler ]
 
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