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Java Market is UP???

Sania Marsh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 12, 2004
Posts: 469
Hi, I recently stared getting too many calls from recruiters and companies for Java positions... They are willing to pay much more than 3-4 months ago.
The only thing that has changed I got certified few weeks ago..
So is Java job market is up or is it miracles of certification?
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
The market started picking up in the Spring. Now it's really accelerating. Not only am I seeing more Java jobs, but also business development and sales positions.

--Mark
Don Stadler
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 10, 2004
Posts: 451
Yes. From personal experience, well... I doubt it's the certification!
Sania Marsh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 12, 2004
Posts: 469
I applied for a job two times, once four months ago and second time after I got certification. I didn't get call the first time, second time I did. so two days ago I had an interview, and the guy told me that it was only the certification that made them call me.
He said it is not proof of that you are professional, but it shows that you can study on your own and have goals.


I have another question, Most of the companies that talk to me, say that they keep the IT dept working 10-12 hrs a day. Is that something usual for IT jobs? Sounds scary to me to sit and think 12 hours a day 5 days a week.
After few years there will be many IT pros with health problems. It's unhealthy to even sit 8 hours every day
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Some companies do require certs of their candidates, but that's the exception not the rule. You can search this forum for many long discussions about the value (or lack thereof) of certifications.

It's not uncommon for IT companies to have 50 or 60 hour work weeks. It's sad and shortsighted, but it happens. It's part of the overall compensation package you must consider. You can find companies that pay equally well for less hours, but they'll probably be more competitive. You need to decide if you need to settle for this type of places, choose less hours and less money, or hold out for the same money and fewer hours.

--Mark
Natalie Kopple
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 06, 2003
Posts: 325
Be aware that it is also because the H1-B visa quota for this year was filled up around the end of March.

Recruiters say that they have been busy for about "a year". Starting the spring 2004, they stopped processing H1-Bs.
frank davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
Originally posted by Natalie Kopple:
Be aware that it is also because the H1-B visa quota for this year was filled up around the end of March.

Recruiters say that they have been busy for about "a year". Starting the spring 2004, they stopped processing H1-Bs.


Damm, the things I learn here. I never connected the dots on that type of thing.. I wonder if there is some way we could track the quota count real time as its being filled, then we could anticipate when the market would start moving up. That info would be invaluable for people who change jobs frequently.
frank davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
Originally posted by Rita Moore:
.. and the guy told me that it was only the certification that made them call me.


My general experience with recruiters is that they are unprofessional and usually quite ignorant and unskilled in evaluating candidates. Maybe this one did call you because of the cert, but never totally trust what they say... I've had some bad experiences with these scoundrels...
Jim Jenkins
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 2
Recruiters are the scum of the earth. They will call you in for interviews and then never call you back, or will keep leading you on. I had one sleaze-bag tell me after an interview, after I came downtown after leaving work early, that the job started the next day. They are mostly low IQ salesman who do not make much. There is some creed for them to never tell the truth. They also do canvas interviews to fill up their databases.

Whatever they offer you per hour, always start off asking for at least four dollars more, and then negotiate for at least two dollars more than the initial offer. If that doesnt't work, or if you are scared you will lose the job, wait until you been at the job for two months, then call then and ask for a raise, saying you have another job offer; you are in power then.
Remember, you make twenty an hour, they charge the client about forty.

Bleed the scum dry.
Don Stadler
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 10, 2004
Posts: 451
Originally posted by Jim Jenkins:

Recruiters are the scum of the earth. They will call you in for interviews and then never call you back, or will keep leading you on. I had one sleaze-bag tell me after an interview, after I came downtown after leaving work early, that the job started the next day. They are mostly low IQ salesman who do not make much. There is some creed for them to never tell the truth. They also do canvas interviews to fill up their databases.


Some of them are like this. Back when I worked as an independent consultant I often worked with one firm of consultants who were decidedly better, and they treated me fairly I think. Others weren't as good but still not this bad. I think I worked with one like this, and I wound up quitting that job after two months. Not because of the recruiter but because the client wouldn't allow me to use the phone to find a place to live. I literally had to sign out and use a pay phone on the street. I figured the next step was them posting a sign-out sheet on the bathroom door, so I split.


Originally posted by Jim Jenkins:

Whatever they offer you per hour, always start off asking for at least four dollars more, and then negotiate for at least two dollars more than the initial offer. If that doesnt't work, or if you are scared you will lose the job, wait until you been at the job for two months, then call then and ask for a raise, saying you have another job offer; you are in power then.
Remember, you make twenty an hour, they charge the client about forty.

Bleed the scum dry.



Now I see why you're angry. $20 an hour is indeed a piss-poor rate. I don't think I ever pulled less than $38 an hour as an independent, maybe $35 for a little while. I don't remember. That is awfully low, even for Florida jobs! Florida used to be notorious for lowball offers.....
Mark Herschberg
Sheriff

Joined: Dec 04, 2000
Posts: 6037
Originally posted by Jim Jenkins:
Recruiters are the scum of the earth.


I have to take exception to this. Yes, there are bad ones out there; quite a number in fact. Nevertheless, not all recruiters are bad. I know quite a few good ones (quite a few because when I meet them, I keep in touch with them).

Here's one example. I hired a guy through a recruiter I had known for a few years and had worked with as a candidate. The guy was smart and had about 12-15 years experience. We hired him, but culturally he wasn't a good fit. He and the young kids didn't seem to get along. It wasn't any one person's fault, just not a good mix. We were going to let him go, but he ended up quitting. This happened at about 62 or 63 days after we hired him. According to the contract (this is pretty standard), if he leaves after 30 days, we owe 50% of the fee, after 60 days, 70% of the fee and after 90 days, 100%. According to the contract, we owed five figures. The recruiter refused it saying it clearly wasn't a good fit and he didn't feel right charging us.

When you find the good ones, stick with them.

--Mark
Vijayendra V Rao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 04, 2004
Posts: 195
Originally posted by Mark Herschberg:


I have to take exception to this. Yes, there are bad ones out there; quite a number in fact. Nevertheless, not all recruiters are bad. I know quite a few good ones (quite a few because when I meet them, I keep in touch with them).

When you find the good ones, stick with them.

--Mark


Point very well made

Normally, recruiters expect you to be some kind of a "superman" to get into their companys. Ever since I have been in this industry, I have slowly realized that you don't need to be a super brilliant to design and develop quality software! I am not sure how many of you will agree with me on this one. I was able to get this great job that I am presently in mainly because I had a Masters degree from United Kingdom and I had specialized in Java. So...no doubt, to get a good job certifications and qualifications do help a great deal. I totally agree on this.

If you are careful in what you do, and if you know the technology and the domain that you are working on in depth, you can do a great job. You don't necessarily have to be an ultra-brilliant geek to do a good job in the software industry. According to me, passion for technology is more helpful than mere brilliance. Any views on this one?


Vijayendra <br /> <br />"The harder you train in peace, the lesser you bleed in war"
Vijay Vaddem
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 13, 2004
Posts: 243
According to me, passion for technology is more helpful than mere brilliance.


Right on Spot!!

Cheers,

Vijay
Vijayendra V Rao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 04, 2004
Posts: 195
Originally posted by Vijay Vaddem:


Right on Spot!!

Cheers,

Vijay


Karthik Guru
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 1209
Actually my company expects me to feel passionate about anything they assign me to We have a proprietory technology (Right from the IDE to the application framework/server is propreitory) in place, which is pretty good actually!.

I was doing cutting edge j2ee sometime back and I guess, i was quite passionate about that. But now am onto the company standard framework. I resented it earlier, but now I like it. Looks like attitude+aptitude is the key.
Ashish Sarker
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Posts: 6
Hi Vijay,
I was able to get this great job that I am presently in mainly because I had a Masters degree from United Kingdom and I had specialized in Java.

Just a simple question. Which university in the UK have you got your MS from?
Thank you
A.
Vijayendra V Rao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 04, 2004
Posts: 195
Originally posted by Ashish Sarker:
Which university in the UK have you got your MS from?


Any particular reason why you would like to know?!
Ashish Sarker
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Posts: 6
Any particular reason why you would like to know?!

Plz dont take it otherwise I see a lot of helpful posts from you. That's why I asked you that question. It's just out of curiosity, nothing else.
Regards
A.
Vijayendra V Rao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 04, 2004
Posts: 195
Originally posted by Ashish Sarker:

I see a lot of helpful posts from you. That's why I asked you that question.




The Robert Gordon University.
Ashish Sarker
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Posts: 6
Thank you Vijay.
 
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