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Does anyone think MS's .NET steals Sun's Java?

HaoZhe Xu
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Joined: Nov 03, 2003
Posts: 222
(VB,VC,C#, VJ)Source code -> middle ware -> .Net Frame
(Java)Souce code -> .class file -> Java Virtual Machine
???

Will .Net take Java's position as there're many family users using Microsoft's OS? But I personally think if MS wish to do this they may need to improve their .Net so they can have all advantages that Java has, such as the Layout Manager of Container, Powerful network support, etc...

And people used to say Java is faster than VB, but slower than C/C++ because VB is translative language, C/C++ is complied to machine code, but now, .Net program is middle ware, will it reduce the speed? BTW, if the speed is reduced, i prefer Java.


[url]Olnex.net[/url]
[SCJP 1.2, SCJD, SCWCD]
Kishore Dandu
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Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
this is discussed numerous times.

In US, the ratio of high profile projects hosted on J2EE platform compared to .net is like 65-35 and is not changing for almost a year.

So u can deduce the reality.


Kishore
SCJP, blog
Jesse Torres
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Joined: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 985
Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
this is discussed numerous times.

In US, the ratio of high profile projects hosted on J2EE platform compared to .net is like 65-35 and is not changing for almost a year.

So u can deduce the reality.


Wow, that's a high market share for .net 35%.


-- <br />4 8 15 16 23 42
Mike Gershman
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Joined: Mar 13, 2004
Posts: 1272
Can anyone compare the supply/demand ratios for j2ee programmers vs. .net programmers?

This is as important as the absolute numbers. I am interested in the US, but the same question could apply to other countries.

Entry level jobs open up when the demand for programmers outstrips the supply.


Mike Gershman
SCJP 1.4, SCWCD in process
Kishore Dandu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
In Dallas, people with .net knowledge are getting placement faster until 4 months ago. Now the tide has turned the other way around & J2EE guys are having good times.

If some one has both the skill sets, they are all set.
Jesse Torres
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 985
Originally posted by Mike Gershman:
Can anyone compare the supply/demand ratios for j2ee programmers vs. .net programmers?

This is as important as the absolute numbers. I am interested in the US, but the same question could apply to other countries.

Entry level jobs open up when the demand for programmers outstrips the supply.


I know that the following is not a dependable analysis.

A plain Java search on Dice.com, yielded 9,041 results.
A plain .net search on Dice.com, generated 5,369 results.
A plain C# search on Dice.com, generated 1,819 results.

I don�t know if the preceding is an indication of "supply/demand ratios for j2ee programmers vs. .net programmers."

Thanks,
HaoZhe Xu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 03, 2003
Posts: 222
Will Linux support .Net and Java loses its Unix/Linux market?
Mike Gershman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2004
Posts: 1272
A plain Java search on Dice.com, yielded 9,041 results.
A plain .net search on Dice.com, generated 5,369 results.
A plain C# search on Dice.com, generated 1,819 results.

I don�t know if the preceding is an indication of "supply/demand ratios for j2ee programmers vs. .net programmers."


Thanks. That speaks to demand. Can anyone comment on the supply of j2ee and of .net programmers?
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 16019
    
  20

Originally posted by HaoZhe XU:
Will Linux support .Net and Java loses its Unix/Linux market?


Microsoft controls .Net and Microsoft knows quite well that Linux is the single biggest threat to their business around. At least until the Next Big Virus hits (probably about 3:00 this afternoon ).

Technically, .Net is a public standard, but MS is a past master at "embrace, extend, extinguish", and that's just when dealing with competitor's standards. MS owns .Net.

The Linux community is busy implementing its own .Net. There's actually 2 projects, I think, but Mono is the one most famous.

I have not been eager to get into Mono, however. The outer layers of .Net are generic and public, but you're dealing with a company that claims web browsers and multimedia players are "Integral parts of Windows". What happens when the critical service you're using turns out to be dependent on, say the embedded copy of IIS or SQL/Server.

A lot of people didn't realize that SQL Server is also an integral part of Windows. Until their allegedly non-DBMS boxes got infected with SQL Slammer.

Technically, there's no bit of proprietary Windows nastiness that Sun couldn't inflict Solaris-wise on Java, since Sun owns Java just as much as MS owns .Net. However Sun has never done anything quite that egregious, whereas Microsoft has.

Which is why I prefer to keep to Java. Even if I trusted Microsoft, they break their own products. At least Java has a deprecation mechanism.


Customer surveys are for companies who didn't pay proper attention to begin with.
Jesse Torres
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 985
Microsoft operates strictly on, "The flavor of the day." Since Microsoft is a marketing empire, they have sufficient funds to shove their ideas down our throats. As a result, they bombard us with why .net is a better alternative. However, as soon as they release another product, they will abandon .net in favor of the new product. Unfortunately, those who jumped the .net bandwagon, will be left with a product that doesn�t have much support from Microsoft. Hence the term, "The flavor of the day."
Robert Chisholm
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Joined: Jul 18, 2004
Posts: 69
Go into a business these days and say:

-You must use Microsoft Windows as your OS
-You must use .Net for your App Server, on a MS OS
-You must use one IDE to develop all your applications on a MS OS for your MS App Server

Some companies say... "Yes, that's great! I want to be spoon-fed by one company for all my needs."

A lot say... "forget it."
[ September 28, 2004: Message edited by: Robert Chisholm ]

SCJP 1.4<br />(WIP) SCJD B&S v2.3.3
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 16019
    
  20

Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
Microsoft operates strictly on, "The flavor of the day." Since Microsoft is a marketing empire, they have sufficient funds to shove their ideas down our throats. As a result, they bombard us with why .net is a better alternative. However, as soon as they release another product, they will abandon .net in favor of the new product. Unfortunately, those who jumped the .net bandwagon, will be left with a product that doesn�t have much support from Microsoft. Hence the term, "The flavor of the day."


I know a business here in town, as a matter of fact that built up a regular showcase of DCOM-based software. Proudly strutted into a Microsoft convention and the first thing they heard was "Forget all about that COM stuff. We have something wonderful. We call it .Net".

Now they're a Java shop

Seriously, Microsoft has no past (some say "the memory of a goldfish"). They have no mechanisms like the Java deprecation mechanism that allows you to do an emergency 3am compile to patch a killer bug in software that's coded for non-supported features. Once it's in the past tense, it's broken forever, and the past tense for Microsoft means "over 6 months old".

That, specifically was why I dropped out of the MS development world. When they were doing flavor-of-the-week database interfaces (RDO, ADO, DOA, COM-DM, OLDE-DB), not only could I not keep up, even their own development tools couldn't.

Not everything Java does is good, but at least it's supportable.
Vitor Belfort
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Joined: Jul 27, 2002
Posts: 30
Come one people.... You're all acting as if Java was a life style...

It's incredibly easy to do .NET instead of Java. If you can't apply the right design patterns in the right places and see algorithms through and through there's no way you can be successful in any language. Learning the C# syntax if you already know Java is a piece of cake... Couple that with the fact that they are both object-oriented and very alike and most likely a program that would require 100 classes in Java, will require the same 100 classes in C#. (I realize this might not be too true in most cases, and I'm exaggerating. The open-source libraries that you can incorporate into a Java project are just endless. I'm not too sure about the .NET lib situation.)

And from what I saw, certain things like web services are way easier on .NET than in Java...


One horrid thing about .NET is the IDE.... Compared to IntelliJ it's just garbage.
[ September 30, 2004: Message edited by: Vitor Belfort ]
 
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subject: Does anyone think MS's .NET steals Sun's Java?