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Buy American.

Helen Thomas
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Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Buy American

Joe Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN) for 6 a.m.
While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG). He put on a dress shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA), designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE) and tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA).
After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN > INDIA) he sat down with his calculator (MADE IN MEXICO) to see how much he could spend today.
After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN) to the radio (MADE IN INDIA) he got in his car (MADE IN GERMANY) and continued his search for a good paying AMERICAN JOB.
At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day, Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (MADE > IN BRAZIL) poured himself a glass of wine (MADE IN FRANCE) and turned on his TV (MADE IN INDONESIA), and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in.....AMERICA.
Buy American.... You�re future depends on it.


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"God who creates and is nature is very difficult to understand, but he is not arbitrary or malicious." OR "God does not play dice." - Einstein
Helen Thomas
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Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Good sense to buy a car made in Germany.

Asda beats Marks and Sparks for clothes. Almost all made in China.
[ August 26, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
For some countries ,you have written '>' sign,What is meant by that?


MH
John Smith
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Joined: Oct 08, 2001
Posts: 2937
... and what is "You�re future depends on it"? Is that some sort of teen English?
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Helen Thomas:
alarm clock
coffeepot
electric razor
dress shirt
designer jeans
tennis shoes
electric skillet
calculator
watch
radio
car
sandals
glass of wine
TV


When s/he has all these luxary items and still has money to spend [>>he could spend today.] then why the hell is he looking for JOB[another good paying] :roll:

Helen Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Sorry , I should have explained that the first post is pasted from elsewhere.
The place wasn't worth remembering.

> might have been at the end of a line.

"Well, i have a ford, so i win, but it is *sh--*ty, so i also loose."
Helen Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Come the evening, Joe Smith ambles off to Sloppy Joe's and orders a beer(MADE IN AMERICA) brewed under license in North America but it's a Japanese beer, Kirin or Ahasi.

He then stops over at Yo! Sushi carousel(MADE GOD KNOWS WHERE) and a chat with the waitress (MADE IN CHILE) before heading home to his bed(MADE IN SOME BACKWATER).
[ August 26, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]
Dmitry Melnik
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Joined: Dec 18, 2003
Posts: 328
I am buying American. I pay federal income tax, local property tax, sales taxes on about everything I buy, I pay mortgage to an American bank, insurance premiums to American insurance companies. I buy American utility and communication services. American medical sevices are my ever favorite. I am not sure if gasoline I buy is American or not, but about half its price consists of taxes anyway. The house I own must be very American also.

After spending such a serious chunk of my income buying American, can I spend the rest of it my way?
Helen Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
For all the goods labelled Made in China, little of the money spent on Chinese goods actually ends up in China. A plastic Professor Dumbledore the Harry Potter character sells for about �10 in a toy shop. Half goes to the retailer, �2 to Mattel, a US toy company which in turn will spend much of this on advertising and promotion in the UK. A further 10% will go to Warner Brothers which owns the Harry Potter film rights and additional royalties will be paid to JK Rowling and her British publishers. Add in the cost of manufacturing and only a small amount is left for the manufacturer, which pays for chemicals, paints and plastic mouldings probably imported from Japan or Korea.
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Which computer should I purchase?TV?

Marcus Green
arch rival
Rancher

Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
Lets assume that the idea spreads and people in China decide to only buy Chinese, people in each European country only buy what is made in their nation, etc etc.

International trade:- welcome to 21st Centuary capitalism.


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Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Marcus Green:
Lets assume that the idea spreads and people in China decide to only buy Chinese, people in each European country only buy what is made in their nation, etc etc.
And the problem with this would be what?


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R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
And the problem with this would be what?


I dont see any problem there but surely I see problem in this thread
Alan Wanwierd
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Joined: Jun 30, 2004
Posts: 624
This process is known as globalisation...

By allowing goods and services to be provided from anywhere, freely we shoudl be able to ensure a true free-market economy.

In this way producers will eventually see economic benefits in moving their facilities to the cheapest locations (currently China/Taiwan/Korea etc etc). Of course by doing this jobs will be lost from the more wealthy/expensive nations and eventually should reduce employment in such places to a level where wage demands drop. At the same time the growing economies in the cheaper countries see employment increase and wage demands go up... all things being equal, we should see an levelling up of living standards across the world... [so says the theory] - Of course this strikes fear into the eyes of those from richer countries since they are the ones whos privileged positions are jeopardised.

Another interesting factor is migration - currently we see pressure for migration from the worlds poorer nations to the worlds richer nations. For a truly free market global economy we would need to have national borders disolved so that anyone can move themselves to a country where the work is.. (thus when software forms pack up and stop development in Sydney, London and L.A. because its too expensive, we should all be able to move to Bangalore to stay employed if we wish)..

..of course I think this is only theory and doesnt seem to hold much water. The reality seems to be that production is moved to where workers rights get further eroded and less regulation occurs so that shareholders can make more money.. Every time a relocation occurs shareholders get more and workers get less, hence the widening divide between rich and poor - reality is, even if ALL business stops building stuff in USA, the production facilities in China (etc etc) are still owned by largely western shareholders so the wealthy west perpetuates its exploitation! (oops getting a bit close to a Marxist political rant here - thread deletion iminient !!)
[ August 30, 2004: Message edited by: Adrian Wallace ]
Guy Allard
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Joined: Nov 24, 2000
Posts: 776
I don't think there are any TVs made in the US. Are there?

In '86 I bought a brand new Dodge mini-van, one of the 1st years there were mini-vans.

I was at a 7-11 getting beer, and an older man came up to me and congratulated me on the purchase of an American made vehicle.

I was polite, but chuckled inside. For that vehicle:

-block poured and bored in Japan (Mitsubishi)
-electronics all made in Japan (Mitsubishi)
-chassis and body all poured and rolled in Canada

I currently own a Japanese car and an American truck. It is amazing how all the nuts and bolts on that Ford F-150 are metric.

How about an American chain saw? No such thing. (I own a Stihl.)

How about an American computer? Who makes one please?

Cell phone? Am sure there are lots of other examples.....

Guy
Warren Dew
blacksmith
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Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 1332
    
    2
Thomas Paul:

And the problem with this would be what?

Inability to take advantage of regional efficiencies.

For example, the reason that I can get fresh fruit and vegetables in the winter as well as the summer is because they are imported from the southern hemisphere. Meanwhile, during our summer, their winter, they can get fresh fruit and vegetables from us. Neither of us has to go back to yucky canned fruit and veggies.

I'd rather not be restricted to cotton clothes because that just happens to be the only fabric the U.S. produces efficiently; I'd like the option of silk from China or wool from England, and I'd like them to have the same options, including cotton from the U.S. Cotton is nice for underwear, but wool is better for overcoats. Bananas grow better in the tropics; the U.S. is particularly good at growing soybeans, corn, and wheat.

Computers are much cheaper for everyone because the U.S. specializes in CPU chips, the Japanese in memory chips, the Taiwanese in assembly, etc. If every nation has to be self contained, many things get more expensive, and the standard of living goes down for everyone.
John Smith
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Joined: Oct 08, 2001
Posts: 2937
I don't think there are any TVs made in the US. Are there?

General Electric still makes TVs, but you would be a fool to buy one. According to my Consumer Report, a GE TV is about 5 times more likely to break than a Japaneese set. I would venture to say that it is unpatriotic to buy a GE TV set -- it would just encourage the manufacturer to sell junk.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Of course by doing this jobs will be lost from the more wealthy/expensive nations and eventually should reduce employment in such places to a level where wage demands drop.

By wage demands, you of course mean salaries. So salaries will drop but corporate executives will become wealthier as their profits increase. In the end, we can simply eat the rich.
Alan Wanwierd
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 30, 2004
Posts: 624
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
By wage demands, you of course mean salaries. So salaries will drop but corporate executives will become wealthier as their profits increase. In the end, we can simply eat the rich.


I dont draw any distinction between wages or salaries... I guess there is a difference - but for this debate it doesnt matter...

but yes - you have grasped the basic point - the only way to profit from a truly global economy from the point of view of a worker in a developed [for 'developed' read 'overpriced'] region - is to become a shareholder.
Chan San
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 30, 2004
Posts: 7

[ August 31, 2004: Message edited by: Max Habibi ]
Helen Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
One of the keys to successful software development is balancing stakeholders needs.
Workers used to be seen and treated like stakeholders but it's not really apparent anymore. Unless there's a cycle of new work replacing shifted work.
If anyone has worked for an automotive company they'd understand this concept where every year they bring out new models.
[ August 31, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]
Joe King
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Joined: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 820
Originally posted by Helen Thomas:
Workers used to be seen and treated like stakeholders but it's not really apparent anymore.


One idea that I quite like the sound of is for more companies to be cooperatives, where workers are shareholders in the company. In Spain they have been experimenting with a rather extreme version of this. In some of their companies there is a one-to-one relationship between shares and employees - only employees can own shares, and each employee owns one share. The employees then vote in their board of directors every few years. There is also a limit to the directors pay, to limit it to something like 3 times the lowest paid worker's pay. It may sound a bit odd, but its been reasonably successful - apparently something like only 5% of new companies in the US/EU last past their first year, where as 95% of these cooperative in Spain lasted. This figure is probably effected by the fact that there is only a few hundred of them compared to millions of "normal" companies, but its quite interesting all the same.

Hmmm.... wonder what my boss would say if I suggested that he could only keep his job if we voted him in?
[ August 31, 2004: Message edited by: Joe King ]
Helen Thomas
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Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
U.S. CEOs Who Outsource Get Bigger Pay Hike-Survey

Chief executives at U.S. companies that shipped jobs overseas won a 46 percent pay hike last year, more than five times the average CEO raise, while ordinary workers' paychecks barely budged, a study showed on Tuesday
[ August 31, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]
Warren Dew
blacksmith
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Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 1332
    
    2
Adrian Wallace:

but yes - you have grasped the basic point - the only way to profit from a truly global economy from the point of view of a worker in a developed [for 'developed' read 'overpriced'] region - is to become a shareholder.

Fortunately for those in developed countries, almost everyone is, since most shares are owned by retirement accounts.
lionel zhou
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Joined: Oct 27, 2004
Posts: 7
Rent A Pro auction service for freelance consulting,offshore outsourcing and custom programming.

http://www.rent-a-pro.com/
Jesse Torres
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Joined: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 985
Originally posted by Dmitry Melnik:
I am buying American. I pay federal income tax, local property tax, sales taxes on about everything I buy, I pay mortgage to an American bank, insurance premiums to American insurance companies. I buy American utility and communication services. American medical sevices are my ever favorite. I am not sure if gasoline I buy is American or not, but about half its price consists of taxes anyway. The house I own must be very American also.

After spending such a serious chunk of my income buying American, can I spend the rest of it my way?


I agree with you.


-- <br />4 8 15 16 23 42
Frank Silbermann
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Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Posts: 1387
Originally posted by R K Singh:

When s/he has all these luxary items and still has money to spend [>>he could spend today.] then why the hell is he looking for JOB[another good paying] :roll:


All those luxury items are cheap in the U.S. The problem is affording housing in a safe neighborhood with a good public school system (or affording private school tuition), healthy (not starchy) food, and medical care.
Frank Silbermann
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Posts: 1387
Originally posted by Helen Thomas:
U.S. CEOs Who Outsource Get Bigger Pay Hike-Survey

Chief executives at U.S. companies that shipped jobs overseas won a 46 percent pay hike last year, more than five times the average CEO raise, while ordinary workers' paychecks barely budged, a study showed on Tuesday


Fifteen years ago chief executives who downsized companies received the greater pay hikes. As I understand it, managers do not like to fire workers and certainly do not desire the hostility people feel towards them. So the higher pay is a compensation for that. (Maybe a sadistic manager would be willing to do the job for less money.)

It is tragic, however, that this go-around is affecting people in _my_ job category.
Max Habibi
town drunk
( and author)
Sheriff

Joined: Jun 27, 2002
Posts: 4118
Since this is turning into a Job Discussion, I'll forward it accordingly.


Java Regular Expressions
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 16019
    
  20

Originally posted by John Smith:
I don't think there are any TVs made in the US. Are there?

General Electric still makes TVs, but you would be a fool to buy one. According to my Consumer Report, a GE TV is about 5 times more likely to break than a Japaneese set. I would venture to say that it is unpatriotic to buy a GE TV set -- it would just encourage the manufacturer to sell junk.


This is the danger of equating American Names with American jobs, and when it comes to offshoring, GE is a poster child anyway. Unless something has happened I don't know about, the last TVs made by Americans were build by Zenith up to about 1990. After that, no matter how American the name, the unit has probably been built, packaged, and shipped from the Orient.

A classic example of the dangers of trying to "Buy American" was quoted as a case where a small midwest town rejected a bid from a company with a Japanese name for earth-moving equipment in favor of an American name, despite the fact that the "Japanese" named company built in US plants and the "American" one imported.

I really don't think of automobiles as belonging to any one country. to build the average car, parts and labor come from all over the world. The only difference is what nation the corporate execs are in, and that's not even counting foreign offices.

I prefer to buy domestic, both to help the local economy and because the older I get, the more I want to be able to personally show up ang go postal if I don't like how I'm treated. However if you domestically manufacture junk, price unrealistically, or your service line is automated, I'll pass you up in favor of someplace more inline with my expectation. No free ride on the Flag.

I was overjoyed when I needed RAM the other day to discover that one manufacturer (Crucial) is a division of Micron Computing, and their facilities are in Idaho. I've had good results with their products and they offer competitive prices and free 2nd-day delivery. (Hey, do I get "plug money" for that?). Always nice to be able to vote for something for a change.


Customer surveys are for companies who didn't pay proper attention to begin with.
 
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subject: Buy American.