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need more information

vaishali udar
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 10, 2004
Posts: 1
i need information for companies
Mike Gershman
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2004
Posts: 1272
Can you be more specific?


Mike Gershman
SCJP 1.4, SCWCD in process
soniya saxena
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 300
companies provide employment to people
Mike Gershman
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Joined: Mar 13, 2004
Posts: 1272
which countries?
peter wooster
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Joined: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 1033
Originally posted by Mike Gershman:
which countries?


The Indian programmers seem obsessed with finding the "very best company". This approach is sure to result in a career in a large bureaucracy that is already far past its prime.

If people in America had taken this approach 20 years ago they would have passed on jobs with Microsoft, Sun, Oracle, EMC, Dell, or Cisco. Instead they would have signed up with Sperry, Burroughs, DEC, Data Control, and PanAm. What a career choice!

Real long term opportunities in developing economies like India and China will be with companies that no one has heard of, who are doing innovative things, especially for their home markets.
soniya saxena
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 300
<<Real long term opportunities in developing economies like India and China will be with companies that no one has heard of, who are doing innovative things, especially for their home markets. >>
Peter, do not compare the Indian market with the US market. In India, there are not many companies doing innovative things for the home market. Rarely do u hear abt a start up with a great idea that went public and the employees becoming millionaires. The indian market is a project based market where most of the companies are executing projects for other companies. Now which are the companies that get good projects. Obviously the brand names and big players. If u outsource a project to India, u wudnt want to give away ur project to a small unknown company if u want some peace of mind. So it is but natural that the software engineer in India would want to get into the best companies in India.
Grishma Dube
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Joined: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 275
well said Soniya...

Arjun Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
and in India ,successful life = good stedy job + marriage + kids+house


MH
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
I think what Peter is saying is that if Indians don't change that attitude they'll never get anywhere as that attitude is stiffling innovation.

It may also very well backfire once the current generation of experienced Indians (most of whom gained that experience abroad in innovative companies) retire and there's no new generation of people thinking innovatively to replace them (because all those innovative companies abroad were destroyed by offshoring to (ironically) India and thus can no longer train Indians in thinking outside the box.


42
Helen Thomas
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Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Originally posted by soniya saxena:
"Real long term opportunities in developing economies like India and China will be with companies that no one has heard of, who are doing innovative things, especially for their home markets."
Peter, do not compare the Indian market with the US market. In India, there are not many companies doing innovative things for the home market. Rarely do u hear abt a start up with a great idea that went public and the employees becoming millionaires. The indian market is a project based market where most of the companies are executing projects for other companies. Now which are the companies that get good projects. Obviously the brand names and big players. If u outsource a project to India, u wudnt want to give away ur project to a small unknown company if u want some peace of mind. So it is but natural that the software engineer in India would want to get into the best companies in India.


You haven't heard of Rajiv Mody, - the father of Wireless Computing as reported in Newsweek and CEO of Sasken technologies ? He operates from Bangalore and is sought after by many telecommunication companies and Japanese companies involved with embedded technologies. For some strange reason Tim Berners Lee didn't make the list of Innovators- too altruistic I think, as the list was ordered by dollar profits.

I suggest you read Newsweek to find out what's happening where. There are innovations happening in Asia, in bio-engineering especially, which is going to make a vast difference to the world. Once the big Western companies move in or the Asian companies become big enough to manage it themselves.
[ December 15, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]

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Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8903

Originally posted by Arjun Shastry:
and in India ,successful life = good stedy job + marriage + kids+house


You always think of marriage.


Groovy
Helen Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Some innovations should be managed at grass roots because once the bigger companies get hold of it they'll more than likely kill it. Esp if it serves their interests.
Arjun Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
{
You haven't heard of Rajiv Mody, - the father of Wireless Computing as reported in Newsweek and CEO of Sasken technologies ? He operates from Bangalore and is sought after by many telecommunication companies and Japanese companies involved with embedded technologies
}
Sasken(origianlly Silicon Automation India) is a very good company.Thats the company I know which even used to hire the people having skills which are not much useful to company.
Helen Thomas
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Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Thats the company I know which even used to hire the people having skills which are not much useful to company.

I read that his models were Warren Buffet - the greatest philanthropist and Gandhi - Philanthropist doesn't seem the right description of Gandhi.

What's the Hindu word to describe Gandhi ?
Manish Hatwalne
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 22, 2001
Posts: 2578

Originally posted by Helen Thomas:
Thats the company I know which even used to hire the people having skills which are not much useful to company.

I read that his models were Warren Buffet - the greatest philanthropist and Gandhi - Philanthropist doesn't seem the right description of Gandhi.

What's the Hindu word to describe Gandhi ?


(1) I know warren buffet as an investor and big bull in the stock market, not as a philanthropist!
(2) Gandhi is often referred to as "Mahatma Gandhi", but "mahatma" is not a HINDU word, it is a HINDI word. Hindu refers to a religion whereas Hindi is the national language of India. There's a difference...

Helen, I though you know a lot about India.

- Manish
Arjun Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
She is also a philanthropist.She doesn't diffrentiate between U and I.
Helen Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Sorry, I confused Warren Buffet with Andrew Carnegie. Anyway, then Mody's philanthropy comes from Gandhi. Though he claims that Warren Buffet is his role model, too.

I do know the difference between Hindu and Hindi.(Typed Hindu instead of Hindi without thinking.) But thanks for pointing it out.
Helen Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Of course, there's no need to get big headed about the claim to " The father of Wireless Computing". There must be many unsung heroes along the way.
It mystifies me that Europe apparently , currently has the best IT network(they stuck to just one standard).Having only had occasion to meet Microsoft Network guys where lots of things go wrong with the network.
America is selling most of it's current network very cheaply to Asian countries.
[ December 15, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]
Prema Chakravarthy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 91
Helen,
For some reason media in India seems to feed the young people this crap about Indians being the "cream of the crop". There is nothing wrong in taking pride in your country and its successful people but they should realize that there are innovative, successful, bright and creative people all over the world.


I would give us, Indians the credit for one thing though - most of us try very hard to succeed, never ready to accept failure as an option. "Perseverance" is the word I guess!
Helen Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Oh, that's not unique to India.

At an interview at a top UK company the technical lead said "Indian developers are just code cutters." To be fair the business lead was really shocked by this attitude. Most developers anywhere are just code cutters. Indian developers are largely seen as not questioning enough but are quick to implement ? Which I think is what the technical lead meant.

That has it's merits also.

There is a trend here to have developers with business skills but that will eventually go away. You do need more purists.
[ December 15, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]
soniya saxena
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 300
Originally posted by Helen Thomas:

I suggest you read Newsweek to find out what's happening where.
There are innovations happening in Asia, in bio-engineering especially, which is going to make a vast difference to the world. Once the big Western companies move in or the Asian companies become big enough to manage it themselves.
[ December 15, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]

Of course, by reading NewsWeek, I might know whats happening where, but that doesnt change anything. And lets forget the rest of Asia and concentrate on India. First of all, in my post, I did not say that that there are 0 innovations in India. There may be a few innovative companies in India. For sure, there are lots of innovative minds in India and these innovative minds open up companies in countries like US cuz the US market is better suited for such opportunities. So the proportion of innovative minds opening up innovative companies in India and becoming successful is far less as compared to US. So u cannot expect the generation of software people in India to bet their lives and careers on these companies. On the other hand, the proportion of brand name companies in India doing innovative projects for US is pretty high. Hence the natural desire to join those.
Helen Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
I guess that's the way to get "localised" in todays global society.
 
 
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