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How to find a suitable company?

Tina Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Hello Friends,

Im from India. In a few months time I will be job searching again. And yet again I will be hit by the same question - how do I know the company I am getting interviewed at is good?

Last time I 'enquired'. Many people gave 'excellent' remarks about the company and its work atmosphere - on which I was very keen. The head hunter praised them. One person who HAD worked there praised them. The pay was acceptable too. The people I interacted with during all those 2/3 interviews were very good.
I ended up having my most horrible experiences in that company. My feedback was the company atmosphere is very 'friendly'. The reality - It was unprofessional.

1. I see every HR putting up the same face and showing the company's best 'made up' face to the world outside. It becomes difficult to judge from the HR if they run a good show.

2. The interviewers sent in are always the best in the company. And mostly I do not end up working with them. So they being 'even the best in the entire world' will not be any good for me. No point in judging on basis of them.

3. Talking the people around is dependent on lot many things. I should
know someone who has worked in that company, or someone's friend's friend or relative or someone related who knows about the company in that PARTICULAR DURATION. Even if I find someone, will his definition of 'good' match my 'good'?

4. If I end up joining an unsuitable company and know this in the first few months/weeks/days I joined, what do I do?

How do you find out a suitable company for yourself during the interview process before joining? Any help will be appreciated.

I had heard few days back that a candidate could even request to meet the team he will be working with. I do not know for sure. But I guess this will be too much to ask in India, I guess. Still, anyone doing that already?

Regards,
Tina


Alongwith being a good coder, try to be a good professional as well!
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
Hi Tina,

Its very difficult to find out the company which will be best for you. During the interview process the interviewer, HR as well as consultant will tell only good things about that company. Its just a management tactic. What they will tell during interview will be different what you really do. If you have any friends in that company you can get some info and based that you can evaluate. I feel JavaRanch is very helpful to find out about a company. Some companies do allow to meet your project team before joining. Some companies atleast will give you a chance to talk with your Project Manager. Atleast this will help you to know with whom you are going to work.

Good Luck
Jagdish
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
If you're in a position where you can select the company you want to work for you're fortunate indeed.
Most of us have to take whatever we're offered to have any job at all...


42
Prema Chakravarthy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 91
Tina,
Pick a small company, it won't happen again. My experience has been that in a small company, there is no HR. You talk to every one involved and you will work with them. I should add that smaller companies are much more careful about people that they bring in, which means you will get grilled quite a bit during the interview.
soniya saxena
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 300
Small or big, there is no difference....all these things can widely vary across companies. It depends on the company in question and it also depends on the individual's perception. Tina, what u see is reality and is no different from what most people feel. There is no way of finding out if the company is suitable for u unless u have first hand experience working there. And again, even if u may be having a bad experience within a company, somebody else may be having a good experience. And again, what is good u for u may not be good for somebody else. Pay & Career Growth - if u find that u r getting neither in a company, then its time to quit. If u r getting atleast one of these, I think u shud hang in for a while.
soniya saxena
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 300
Jeroen, depends on the country where u work and the economy of the country at that point in time.
Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
If you're in a position where you can select the company you want to work for you're fortunate indeed.
Most of us have to take whatever we're offered to have any job at all...
soniya saxena
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 300
I dont think picking a small company in India is a good idea. Small companies ain't that great in India.

Originally posted by Prema Chakravarthy:
Tina,
Pick a small company, it won't happen again. My experience has been that in a small company, there is no HR. You talk to every one involved and you will work with them. I should add that smaller companies are much more careful about people that they bring in, which means you will get grilled quite a bit during the interview.
peter wooster
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 1033
Originally posted by soniya saxena:
I dont think picking a small company in India is a good idea. Small companies ain't that great in India.



Big companies are good for stability, but its the small ones that have the opportunities. 22 years ago SUN was a very small company.
Tina Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
If you're in a position where you can select the company you want to work for you're fortunate indeed.
Most of us have to take whatever we're offered to have any job at all...


I do not know where you are located and how things are in your country. With all due respect to the conditions in which you are working, I request you not call me 'fortunate'!

Regards,
Tina
Tina Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Originally posted by Prema Chakravarthy:
Tina,
Pick a small company, it won't happen again. My experience has been that in a small company, there is no HR. You talk to every one involved and you will work with them. I should add that smaller companies are much more careful about people that they bring in, which means you will get grilled quite a bit during the interview.


It happened in a SMALL company itself. I have not worked in a company with no HR though. Gut feeling, it will not be a place I would like to work at.

Small companies do grill you in interviews but when its pay time, they usually gave the excuse like 'look, we are not a very big company so...' which I feel is turning things in their advantage.

And the people they had brought in were not professional at all.

I appreciate your reply. But Im afraid, I have had worst experience in a small company. I do not know whether it is the small companies in INDIA which are like this as Soniya says. I have not worked outside of India, so it will be improper on my part to claim anything.

Small company and big company is individual choice really. Some are happy in small companies and some have a smooth sailing in big ones. But the thing Im interested in is - how you guys find out if the company is 'made-dor-you'? Some basic points which when cleared, will mean there is a chance that this might be the company a developer is looking for.

Regards,
Tina
Tina Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Originally posted by soniya saxena:
Small or big, there is no difference....all these things can widely vary across companies. It depends on the company in question and it also depends on the individual's perception. Tina, what u see is reality and is no different from what most people feel.

Hello Soniya and Jagdish, Im glad that both of you expressed that it is a concern of many people. I wondered that Im alone. I did. Many close relatives and friends are in IT. But I did not feel this bothers them at all.

Originally posted by soniya saxena:
There is no way of finding out if the company is suitable for u unless u have first hand experience working there. And again, even if u may be having a bad experience within a company, somebody else may be having a good experience. And again, what is good u for u may not be good for somebody else.

I agree to this.

Originally posted by soniya saxena:
Pay & Career Growth - if u find that u r getting neither in a company, then its time to quit. If u r getting atleast one of these, I think u shud hang in for a while.

hmm.. one person left the 'bad company' in just 4 months. The consultant convinced me that he had done a very bad thing and it will show so badly on his CV - all through his working life. I went for 8 more months than him in the company but just kept on getting worse experiences. When I left, I was mentally exhausted as I never found the place suitable for me.

So, making your sentence more generalised, is it that if one is very sure one is in unsuitable place, one should quit? Not sure if leaving the company in few months is always the option available. May be one needs the job. Or may be you left the last one only in few months as you could not find a suitable company back then

Regards,
Tina
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
Tina, Until unless you will enter in a company you cant know exactly whether that company is best suits to you are not. You know I left my previous company in 21 days. But that doesnt mean that company is not good. I left it bec I felt I am not getting what I expected. But its very good company in Bangalore and every one dreams to join in that company. But my experience with that company is different. So something good to you may not be good to to others and vice versa. I worked in all Metros in India so I can give some info about the companies. If you need any info about any specific company I can try to give. But remember the things which are good to me may not be good to you .

With particular company you might have had bad experience but other people may have good experience too. But I personally feel Small companies will give more chance to grow and you can involve all kinds of work so that you will get more exposure. But small companies stability is one of the worry. So you can choose a comapny which is having 500 to 1000 people. But in big companies you will learn lot of processes Big or small both have +ves and -ves.
Sathvathsan Sampath
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 03, 2000
Posts: 96
I worked for a startup in UK and a start up in Bangalore. I had a forgettable experience with the start up in India and a memorable one in the UK. Some of the potential issues I see with startups are
- There is a lack of stability in the organizational direction and operations.
- Getting and sustaining top quality resources are difficult especially in startups here at Bangalore.
- Mostly those initial guys forming a start-up have a strong sense of ownership. As the company add in more people this sense of ownership goes missing unless there is a strong and talented leadership.
- Financial constraints might mean paying lower salaries and other constraints.
Most of these weren't applicable to the start up I worked for in the UK or may not be applicable in your case. But sadly I hear some of these situations from friends as well here at Bangalore.
However, I suppose in bigger companies you need to interview with the right team to avoid painful experience. I guess your networking might be the best bet to figure how whether a company is suitable for you. And the pre-condition for that is a good deal of self-analysis and introspection.


- Sathvathsan Sampath
Prema Chakravarthy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 91
Why do you think a lot of people in the US try to startup their own businesses? Any job has its positives and negatives. When the negatives outweigh the positives, you leave. A lot of the issues you are talking about do exist even in the US. Smaller companies are riskier etc. Managing one's career is also a matter of developing interpersonal and professional skills that will help you to enjoy your work life better.
Tina Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Originally posted by Jagdish Reddy:
Tina, Until unless you will enter in a company you cant know exactly whether that company is best suits to you are not.

This exactly is the problem.

Originally posted by Jagdish Reddy:
You know I left my previous company in 21 days. But that doesnt mean that company is not good.

Can this be a solution? You left the company in 21 days? Were you out of job? or you used these 21 days to search for a new job and then switch? what did you tell the new company? That you are leaving the previous one in flat 21 days or that you are on break or..what?

Some people have two offers in hand. Miracle? As I never seem to be getting one offer .. and having 2 at a time, giving you a choice to decide seems a concious effort - not a co-incidence.

Regards,
Tina
Tina Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Originally posted by Sathvathsan Sampath:
- Mostly those initial guys forming a start-up have a strong sense of ownership. As the company add in more people this sense of ownership goes missing unless there is a strong and talented leadership.


Well said. This could not have been framed more appropriately, I felt. The initial guys do have a strong sense of ownership. They work hard to make the company better. The company has a 'culture' to it. But when delegation has to be done, the new people coming in might not imbibe that unless exposed to it and told to follow.

Regards,
Tina
Helen Thomas
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Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Techies don't like HR much. They feel HR don't really understand them.


Le Cafe Mouse - Helen's musings on the web - Java Skills and Thrills
"God who creates and is nature is very difficult to understand, but he is not arbitrary or malicious." OR "God does not play dice." - Einstein
soniya saxena
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 300

Can this be a solution? You left the company in 21 days?

Why not??? If u r not happy, thats it.


Were you out of job? or you used these 21 days to search for a new job and then switch?

I wouldnt quit unless I find the next job.


what did you tell the new company? That you are leaving the previous one in flat 21 days or that you are on break or..what?

I guess, either way is fine. some companies wud have a problem with that, but majority wudnt care.


Some people have two offers in hand. Miracle? As I never seem to be getting one offer .. and having 2 at a time, giving you a choice to decide seems a concious effort - not a co-incidence.

No miracle, quite possible.

But that said, this does not mean that u jump every company in 21 days. There is a lot of adjusment u wud have to do onr ur part to accept the company. No company is perfect and no person is perfect. And as long as u r getting atleast one of the 2 - good pay or career growth, u shudnt consider quitting the company for some time.
Leena Diwan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 18, 2001
Posts: 351
Everytime you change, how can you manage to have 2 offers in hand? I mean doesn't all the process take time? Do you wait till you get the second one and till then keep on conveying the companies that you are not yet joining?

Leena


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soniya saxena
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 300
Did anybody ever say that every time u change, u will have 2 offers in hand. I just said that it is not impossible cuz u may talking to several companies simultaneously when looking for a change, and out of those several companies, u might get offers from 2, spaced maybe a week or 2 apart. Or u cud have got an offer from Company 1, u give a 1 month notice in ur current company and towards the end of the notice period, u get an offer from Company 2. Well, there are several permutations/combinations and with the Indian IT market booming, I dont see why this cudnt be a norm rather than exception.

Originally posted by Leena Diwan:
Everytime you change, how can you manage to have 2 offers in hand? I mean doesn't all the process take time? Do you wait till you get the second one and till then keep on conveying the companies that you are not yet joining?

Leena
Tina Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Well, its still cirsumstantial. Aint it? I can agree that the IT boom might give a person a chance to have more than one offers and then choose..

Basically what we can conclude out of this discussion is that - there is no chance of knowing the suitability of the company for a person till one enters it and works there.

By suitability I do not mean only Pay and career growth. Rather I better omit pay from the list as one would definitely talk about money before joining (although one can argue about the raises and perks and choices are endless). Onsite apportunities can also be found out by finding out about the clients and talking to contacts.

But career growth, work culture etc can be difficult to find out about before joining.

Thanks for the replies of you all.

Regards,
Tina
Kj Reddy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 1704
HI Tina Here is my response to your questions


Can this be a solution?
Well always this may not be good solution. But some times we wont have any solution other then this. Rather then working unhappily for 6months to 1 year I felt leave the company immediately so that there is no depenedency of work in current company. I left the company before taking up my responsibilitiesYou left the company in 21 days? Were you out of job? or you used these 21 days to search for a new job and then switch? Dont quit job unless you have another job in your hand. When you have job its easy to get another job and when you dont have job its very very difficult to get job. I got another job within a week of time. More over when I joined first organization I had 4 to 5 offers in my hand.
what did you tell the new company? That you are leaving the previous one in flat 21 days or that you are on break or..what?

The interview process in new company started before I joined previous one. So I told the fact the new company that I am interested in their organization but as they delayed the process I joined another one. Some people have two offers in hand. Miracle? As I never seem to be getting one offer .. and having 2 at a time, giving you a choice to decide seems a concious effort - not a co-incidence.
Its not a miracle at all. I dont know how much experience you have. If you have 2+ yrs its very easy to get more than 2 offers. But I can tell you getting first job is some what difficult. Once you get a offer then other offers flow into your hand.
 
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