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What to use? or Is JSP obsolete?

Pat Perkins
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 13, 2007
Posts: 6
Hi,

I'm new to JSP, but not to Java, and am interested in building a 'web application' with a MySQL back-end. I've read through the book 'Core Servlets and JSP' by Marty Hall and Larry Brown. It seems to cover everything I need, but...

Googling for e.g. JSP and Hibernate (since I don't really want to have to learn all the SQL crap), all I get are links to Struts or Struts2 or other frameworks, and have even come across posts saying 'only old school morons use straight JSP or servlets these days. To be l33t you need Struts2.'

But after taking a look at struts, I think it's really a lot of overkill and have always had an aversion to 'frameworks' anyway, so can someone tell me what I'm missing? Is there really some great advantage to using struts or some other 'framework'? Am I going to get laughed off the stage if I mention I've written my stuff with straight JSP? P.S. the fact that struts1 had to be completely rewritten to get to struts2 seems to indicate to me that I should stay away from it, but I'd be happy to find out I'm misinformed.

Thanks,

Pat
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60774
    
  65

Do you want to be l33t or do you want to be an informed developer?

JSP is far from obsolete, and there is a growing movement away from over-blown behemoths like Struts, with the realization that you don't need a large framework to do web development, and that replacing a few lines of Java with 23 lines of configuration isn't all that great an idea after all.

This especially true of modern JSP 2.0 which corrected a lot of the mis-steps taken by earlier versions of JSP.

If you are interested in a small-footprint front controller, look through the Blatant Advertising forum for the entry on Front Man.
[ July 13, 2007: Message edited by: Bear Bibeault ]

[Asking smart questions] [Bear's FrontMan] [About Bear] [Books by Bear]
Pat Perkins
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 13, 2007
Posts: 6
I really couldn't care less about being l33t, but on the other hand, sometimes perception is important - if you're trying to sell your stuff (or yourself) and your choice of technology is seen as old-fashioned, you'd better have some pretty good reasons (and be able to convincingly articulate them) for going against the tide.

So it's nice to know that the tide is apparently towards JSP and away from overblown frameworks (though you sure wouldn't know it from google results), which was my question - I'm definitely of the 'simpler is better' camp, so thanks for at least validating that I'm not the only one.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

I'll +1 everything Bear has said. And not to take anything away from FrontMan, but to show you that there are more than a few folks that have the same opinions we share, take a look at Stripes as well. At least to round your knowledge out. ;)


GenRocket - Experts at Building Test Data
Edisandro Bessa
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 19, 2006
Posts: 584
I think you should keep things as simple as possible.

If you can quickly acomplish your goal by simply using servlets and JSP, so you have to do it.

If your application is NOT supposed to grow and it's very simple, I think there's no problem in using JSP.

Why use a Ferrari to cross the street when you can walk ?

In order to use a Ferrari you have to concern about fasten your seat belt, turn the car on, look at your mirrors to make sure no other car is crossing the street and so on...

Think about that !


"If someone asks you to do something you don't know how to, don't tell I don't know, tell I can learn instead." - Myself
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60774
    
  65

Originally posted by Pat Perkins:
I really couldn't care less about being l33t


I actually never thought that you did.

you'd better have some pretty good reasons (and be able to convincingly articulate them) for going against the tide.


Very astute, and true. I can wax for hours on why I loathe big Rube Goldberg machines that make a huge production out of doing a simple task.

So it's nice to know that the tide is apparently towards JSP and away from overblown frameworks


I'm not sure I'd call it a tide -- but there is a growing group of experienced developers, many on the staff of this site, who eschew the Goldberd-esque frameworks.

I'm definitely of the 'simpler is better' camp


Welcome, brother!
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60774
    
  65

Originally posted by Edisandro Bessa:
If your application is NOT supposed to grow and it's very simple, I think there's no problem in using JSP.


I disagree with this. Keeping the framework simple becomes even more important when a web application gets big and broad.

Simple is not just for for small web apps that aren't "supposed to grow". It's for any web app, especially those that will get complicated enough in their own right without something like Struts to make it even more complicated than it needs to be,
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
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